Poll of polls on the longest running debate:

[The_Watchers_2017]

all that matters is that the Ancient Hebrews used Elohim to mean ONE PERSON of the TRUE GOD YHWH or Yahweh or LORD [all Capital letters]

so if we want to understand how God presented Himself to Moses, who wrote this, we need to understand it from how God instructed them to understand it.

probably why the Jews today use this Verse, since it is mentioned twice to describe God:

18 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne with the whole host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

19 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne with the whole host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

1 Kings and 2 Chronicles:

ALL of Heaven is present but only One Person Elohim.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Elohim , The noun Elohim is plural but it is always used as a singular verb when it speaks of the true God of Israel.

Not actually, It speaks of the godhead It is still plural. even though in the english it is translated as singular.

 

[PennEd]

probably why the Jews today use this Verse, since it is mentioned twice to describe God:

18 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne with the whole host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

19 “Therefore hear the word of Adonai. I saw Adonai sitting on His throne with the whole host of heaven standing on His right and on His left.

1 Kings and 2 Chronicles:

ALL of Heaven is present but only One Person Elohim.

This all sounds dangerously like you either don't believe Jesus IS God, or adopt some form of modalism, where there is just One person of the Trinity, and God at different times takes the mode of Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, depending on the circumstances.

BOTH, are heresies.

But maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

all that matters is that the Ancient Hebrews used Elohim to mean ONE PERSON of the TRUE GOD YHWH or Yahweh or LORD [all Capital letters]

so if we want to understand how God presented Himself to Moses, who wrote this, we need to understand it from how God instructed them to understand it.

Actually when the hebrews wanted to use the singular form of elohime, they just used the hebrew word el. as in Gen 25, the God (el) of your father..

when elohim was used, it is always plural

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

In reality

Elohim is the plural form of the word El

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

This all sounds dangerously like you either don't believe Jesus IS God, or adopt some form of modalism, where there is just One person of the Trinity, and God at different times takes the mode of Father, Son, or Holy Spirit, depending on the circumstances.

BOTH, are heresies.

But maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.

why would explaining the Bible how the Jews wrote it make me a heretic?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Not actually, It speaks of the godhead It is still plural. even though in the english it is translated as singular.

in English it does mean Godhead but not in the Hebrew Language.

was the Bible written in English or Hebrew?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Actually when the hebrews wanted to use the singular form of elohime, they just used the hebrew word el. as in Gen 25, the God (el) of your father..

when elohim was used, it is always plural

really?

6 And He said, "I am the Elohim of your father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward Elohim .
ווַיֹּ֗אמֶר אָֽנֹכִי֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֑ב וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר משֶׁה֙ פָּנָ֔יו כִּ֣י יָרֵ֔א מֵֽהַבִּ֖יט אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִֽים:

that is Singular Elohim!

Names of God and Exodus 3:16 - Stanford CS Theory
http://theory.stanford.edu › ~oldham › church

PDF

by JD Oldham · 2000 — “Elohim” is a basic generic name for god, e.g., the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Ex 3:6).

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

anyways, Grace is an Action by God and Favor is a Condition we have once we are part of God's Kingdom.


clearly, if people don't understand what they are reading they will make wrong conclusions. much of why we have False Doctrines today like Name it and Claim it, Grace, OSAS, Word of Faith, Prosperity, and so many more...

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

in English it does mean Godhead but not in the Hebrew Language.

was the Bible written in English or Hebrew?

in hebrew is is plural. so yes, it would mean the godhead. Moses wrote Genisis 1. Moses wrot not only that God (plural Created the heavens and erth, he also wrote that this same God (plural) said let US make man in OUR image

which is why Mpses used elohim (plural), instead of el (singular). when he said God (plural)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

really?

6 And He said, "I am the Elohim of your father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward Elohim .
ווַיֹּ֗אמֶר אָֽנֹכִי֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֑ב וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר משֶׁה֙ פָּנָ֔יו כִּ֣י יָרֵ֔א מֵֽהַבִּ֖יט אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִֽים:

that is Singular Elohim!

Names of God and Exodus 3:16 - Stanford CS Theory
http://theory.stanford.edu › ~oldham › church

PDF

by JD Oldham · 2000 — “Elohim” is a basic generic name for god, e.g., the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Ex 3:6).

LOL

just as with Charis, you will only seek people who agree with you. and not seek the whole council

Elohim is plural God said let US.. he did not speak to himself and say let me..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

anyways, Grace is an Action by God and Favor is a Condition we have once we are part of God's Kingdom.


clearly, if people don't understand what they are reading they will make wrong conclusions. much of why we have False Doctrines today like Name it and Claim it, Grace, OSAS, Word of Faith, Prosperity, and so many more...

Grace is an action by God. and once we are adopted as his children, Grace is applied to us

thats eternal life

it can not be lost, because it can not be earned

If you reject eternal life. you reject grace..

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

the real HERETICS are those who take a written manual and apply their own meaning towards it disregarding the meaning it was originally intended to display.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

in hebrew is is plural. so yes, it would mean the godhead. Moses wrote Genisis 1. Moses wrot not only that God (plural Created the heavens and erth, he also wrote that this same God (plural) said let US make man in OUR image

which is why Mpses used elohim (plural), instead of el (singular). when he said God (plural)

Moses did not use anything. He wrote what he was instructed.

i bet you are unfamiliar with the 8 Verses that speak about the Council of God.

 

[PennEd]

why would explaining the Bible how the Jews wrote it make me a heretic?

I didn’t say you were a heretic.
I said if someone believes Jesus is not God or some form of modalism, THAT is heresy.

Is that your belief?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Moses did not use anything. He wrote what he was instructed.

i bet you are unfamiliar with the 8 Verses that speak about the Council of God.

after the Tower of Babel:

Deut 32:
8 When God gave nations their heritage,
when He separated the sons of man,
He set boundaries for the people
by the number of the Sons of God.
9 But Adonai’s portion is His people—
Jacob is the share of His inheritance.


who are the Sons of God that got the other nations?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Moses did not use anything. He wrote what he was instructed.

i bet you are unfamiliar with the 8 Verses that speak about the Council of God.

Yep

and god instructed him to write the words. And God (elohim) said let US make man in OUR image and OUR likness

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I didn’t say you were a heretic.
I said if someone believes Jesus is not God or some form of modalism, THAT is heresy.

Is that your belief?

Yeshua is indeed God!

the WORD before He was Yeshua was Adonai, Elohim in Verse 6 of Exodus 3, I AM, Yahweh.

1 In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God

14 And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us.

16 And confessedly great is the mystery of godliness: He who was manifested in flesh, was justified in spirit, seen by angels, preached among the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Yep

and god instructed him to write the words. And God (elohime) said let US make man in OUR image and OUR likness

after the Tower of Babel:

Deut 32:
8 When God gave nations their heritage,
when He separated the sons of man,
He set boundaries for the people
by the number of the Sons of God.
9 But Adonai’s portion is His people—
Jacob is the share of His inheritance.


who are the Sons of God that got the other nations?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I didn’t say you were a heretic.
I said if someone believes Jesus is not God or some form of modalism, THAT is heresy.

Is that your belief?

one of my favorite pre-incarnate Christ Verses
Shemot Chapter 6:
2 God spoke to Moses, and He said to him, "I am the Lord.

3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob with [the name] Almighty God, but [with] My name YHWH, I did not become known to them.
^
notice how the Hebrews don't mention specifically [the name]?
look it up it means ELOHIM!