The Remnant

DavidTree · Oct 23, 2022

You said: "The term “Israel” is either used of the nation or the people as a whole, or of the believing remnant within. It is never used of the Church in general or of Gentile believers in particular."

How in the world can you say such an unbiblical thing??? In LIGHT of the Scriptures???

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and foretold the gospel to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”b 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Christ Has Redeemed Us

10All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”c 11Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”d 12The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”e

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abrahamg would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

The Purpose of the Law
(Romans 7:1–6)

15Brothers, let me put this in human terms. Even a human covenant, once it is ratified, cannot be canceled or amended. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,”h meaning One, who is Christ.

17What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.

19Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the seed to whom the promise referred. It was administered through angels by a mediator. 20A mediator is unnecessary, however, for only one party; but God is one.

21Is the law, then, opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Sons through Faith in Christ

26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

DavidTree · Oct 23, 2022

TheDivineWatermark said:

ou said: "The term “Israel” is either used of the nation or the people as a whole, or of the believing remnant within. It is never used of the Church in general or of Gentile believers in particular."

How in the world can you say such an unbiblical thing??? In LIGHT of the Scriptures???

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not understand what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.

24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren woman,

who bears no children;

break forth and cry aloud,

you who have never travailed;

because more are the children of the desolate woman

than of her who has a husband.”c

28Now you,d brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time, however, the son born by the flesh persecuted the son born by the Spirit. It is the same now.

30But what does the Scripture say? “Expel the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”e 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

2ndTimothyGroup · Oct 24, 2022

DavidTree said:

Thank you, David. I doubt that I'll ever find much interest in Eschatology. Considering all of the fighting and complaining between "believers," it seems best just to stay in my Spiritual Circumcision lane and leave alternate subjects to those who have a passion for it.

- Thanks again.

Wansvic · Oct 24, 2022

DavidTree said:

I believe your and my understanding of when the sealing takes place for the NT believer differs. And as such, if looking through the lens of your understanding (if I am correct) I can see why you wouldn't think there is a difference.

Although I haven't been given a complete revelation. The scripture does reveal a marked difference between how the two groups are sealed. Those of the NT church are sealed with the Holy Ghost as a result of belief and a willingness to obey the gospel. Yet in Rev. 7 angels were tasked with sealing the 144,000.

The NT church is sealed with the Holy Ghost after placing their trust in Jesus upon hearing the word of truth, the gospel of salvation. (Eph. 1:13) We see this placing of trust in action as evidenced by belief and obedience to the gospel message initially presented on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:36-42) As well as other confirming records. (Acts 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)

This differs from what is revealed through John's vision concerning the 144,000 of the 12 tribes of Israel:

"And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel." Rev. 7:2-4

I am interested in any other thoughts you may have on the topic.

Wansvic · Oct 24, 2022

@DavidTree I do realize that the gospel is the same for both Jew and Gentile that have not been blinded for a specific purpose by God. All must believe in the Lord Jesus for no one comes to the Father except through Him.

My point is the sealing of the 144,000 in the account given in Rev. 7 seems to be for a different purpose then being sealed with the Holy Ghost. I have been pondering whether the group is sealed for their protection because the group is still blinded in order to fulfill a specific purpose relevant to the time just prior to the second coming.

Your thoughts?

DavidTree · Oct 24, 2022

Wansvic said:

Presently, i see no difference in Revelation chapter 7 but rather a complete agreement and harmony with the only Covenant that God has established for Redemption for BOTH the Jew and the Gentile.

It is written: "
But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?"
Hebrews ch1

Peace to you my Brother in Christ

ForestGreenCook · Oct 24, 2022

2ndTimothyGroup said:

To my understanding of the scriptures, with the revelation of the Holy Spirit, "the house of Israel" does not have reference to the whole nation of Israel, but to those elect of God that comprise "the house of Israel" which is Jacob, whom God changed his name from Jacob, to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect people (Rom 9:11).

The remnant of the house of Israel/Jacob

2ndTimothyGroup said:

Thank you for your comment, but I feel that there is more that I don't know, than there is that I do know. I need more study. The disagreements that I receive compels me to dig deeper into the revelations ahead.

2ndTimothyGroup · Oct 24, 2022

ForestGreenCook said:

I hear what you are saying. I discovered Spiritual Circumcision about 3.5 years ago and find that the core of the Bible revolves around just that, Spiritual Circumcision. It . . . is . . . unbelievable how, when a person reaches a certain Understanding of Spiritual Circumcision, it gives the whole of the Bible incredible meaning. From God preventing Adam and Eve from eating from the Tree of Life (to receive Spiritual Circumcision of the brand new Curse, thus living "forever"), to Abraham, the one in whom Spiritual Circumcision was instituted, to David, the "son" of Abraham and the Spiritual "Father" of Christ, to Colossians 2:9-15, the seven more important verses in the entire Bible . . . and so much more . . . the "pieces" finally fit together.

I cannot stress how important it is that we read and learn the Bible in a timeline, chronological order. It amazes me that I had never heard of such a thing until I thought of it myself. Pleasantly surprised, there are many resources for reading the Bible in such a manner. I hope that no one relates to this, but prior to my Transformation, I had little desire to read and understand the Old Testament. It was confusing, I couldn't keep track of anything, really. Nothing fit . . . there was no story at all. So when I realized that I could read the entire Bible as though it were a regular novel, I was ecstatic! To read and learn of the history of humanity up to the years of Christ was the single most exciting, but also heartbreaking story I've ever read. I wish we could understand that by knowing the entire Bible, we would know our Lord much better through the story He has given to us . . . the Story of God . . . the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

After reading the Bible in this way, I then repeated the process with reading a different translation. Each time I begin reading the Bible all over again, I use a translation not used before. By doing such, certain ideas and concepts will be caught that went undetected in the previous translations read. Its unbelievable . . . how much a person can learn by doing these two things:

1) Read the entire Bible in a timeline, chronological order
2) Repeat reading the entire Bible, but with a different translation

Let's add a third:

3) Write down or create a spreadsheet and keep track of not only certain Bible passages, but write down questions, or doctrines that are of interest. One of the topics that I kept track of was . . . "The Power of God." I have 155 references that demonstrate His Raw, Almighty Power. As the years have gone by, I now have hundreds of topics that I have organized and cataloged. Creating this Excel Spreadsheet and cataloging the Lord's Holy Word is the most significant thing the Lord has ever caused me to do.

Thanks for letting me ramble. I'd better check the title of the thread and make sure that I'm not hijacking. Yikes.

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The Remnant

DavidTree

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DavidTree

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2ndTimothyGroup

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Wansvic

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Wansvic

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DavidTree

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ForestGreenCook

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2ndTimothyGroup

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