Is faith a work?
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FreeGrace2 said:
You don't even have one. I showed you the verse from the OT that Paul was quoting from that proves that Paul had in mind the nation of Edom. Why are you so stubborn?
Please share the many verses that tell us plainly that God hates individuals. I don't believe your claim.
No you didn't. The ONE you did give doesn't say what you want it to say.
And you said there are "many more". So, where are they?
Your response here proves you don't have any, or you would have at least shared some, to prove your claim.
You don't even have one. I showed you the verse from the OT that Paul was quoting from that proves that Paul had in mind the nation of Edom. Why are you so stubborn?
Please share the many verses that tell us plainly that God hates individuals. I don't believe your claim.
No you didn't. The ONE you did give doesn't say what you want it to say.
And you said there are "many more". So, where are they?
Your response here proves you don't have any, or you would have at least shared some, to prove your claim.
Rather, you appear to be unable to comprehend the written word.
To be "given to believe" doesn't mean cause to believe, which is the Calvinist claim, but unproven from Scripture. It means to be given the opportunity to believe.
The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:
Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.
2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
Bottom line: God omnisciently knows from eternity past who will and who won't believe. He is under no obligation to present the gospel to those who "refuse to love the truth".
But since Christ died for everyone, and many unbelievers are simply unaware of the gospel, rather than hating it, are given the opportunity to believe.
We know that the gospel is available to everyone, as Titus 2:11 plains says. And refutes Calvinism.
To be "given to believe" doesn't mean cause to believe, which is the Calvinist claim, but unproven from Scripture. It means to be given the opportunity to believe.
The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:
Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.
2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
Bottom line: God omnisciently knows from eternity past who will and who won't believe. He is under no obligation to present the gospel to those who "refuse to love the truth".
But since Christ died for everyone, and many unbelievers are simply unaware of the gospel, rather than hating it, are given the opportunity to believe.
We know that the gospel is available to everyone, as Titus 2:11 plains says. And refutes Calvinism.
FreeGrace2 said:
There is no promise in the verse. But please show me the words that you "interpret" as a promise.
OK, call it what you want. It is from His omniscience.
There is no promise in the verse. But please show me the words that you "interpret" as a promise.
OK, call it what you want. It is from His omniscience.
You still don't understand. To be "given to believe" means to give opportunity to believe.
I proved that your view isn't biblical with verses. Since you disagree, then address each verse and explain how and why I am wrong.
Here is what I gave you:
The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:
Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.
2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
I proved that your view isn't biblical with verses. Since you disagree, then address each verse and explain how and why I am wrong.
Here is what I gave you:
The reason God doesn't give everyone the opportunity is because He knows they won't believe. And this is the biblical proof:
Acts 16-
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia.
7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to.
2 Thess 2-
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
These verses show that those who REFUSE to "love the truth" are sent a delusion.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.
So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.
Again, I don't believe your opinion. I've made it clear that your "claim" is just an opinion.
I proved from Scripture that God doesn't choose who will believe, which is the basis of your belief in understanding Phil 1:29, but you can't provide ANY of the "many more verses" that you claim teach the same thing.
I don't believe your opinion of the verse. A big difference. And you STILL won't prove any of your so-called "many more" verses that supposedly say what you claim.
So you've already been discredited by your own failure to back up what you cclaim.
Again, I don't believe your opinion. I've made it clear that your "claim" is just an opinion.
I proved from Scripture that God doesn't choose who will believe, which is the basis of your belief in understanding Phil 1:29, but you can't provide ANY of the "many more verses" that you claim teach the same thing.
well unless you believe ALL the gentiles heard and believed. well then you can not interpret this passage as you are trying to do.
because using your interpretation. the salvation of God is sent to the GENTILES, that THEY should hear and believe.
It does not say some of them, or say these will believe but those will not.
because using your interpretation. the salvation of God is sent to the GENTILES, that THEY should hear and believe.
It does not say some of them, or say these will believe but those will not.
Gods will does not always come to pass
Matthew 23:37
Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
He gave them free will to reject his will.. like he gives everyone
Matthew 23:37
Jesus Laments over Jerusalem
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
He gave them free will to reject his will.. like he gives everyone
All the Gentiles that had been previously ordained to eternal life shall hear and believe Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believe
Jn 10 :16 is speaking about Gentile Sheep, not all gentiles without exception. Same with the jews, only the jewish Sheep that belong to Christ shall believe.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believe
Jn 10 :16 is speaking about Gentile Sheep, not all gentiles without exception. Same with the jews, only the jewish Sheep that belong to Christ shall believe.
