Christians Are Not Sinners
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I might be convinced if you cold supply the portions of scripture that prove what you say
you have not done that. on the other hand, myself and others have posted scripture to indicate that God does not see believers as sinners; God says we are righteous because we are in Christ.
if you wish to call yourself a sinner, even God won't stop you. it is your choice.
I am not posting my 'beliefs'. I have posted numerous scriptures that indicate sinners are unsaved people
you probably need to be reminded at this point, that no one has said we never sin. the conclusion by some that the thread is about sinless perfectionism is a result of miscomprehension.
if someone who believes they are a Christian thinks they are still a sinner but God loves them anyway, they do not understand salvation.
further, those who think that way, may tend to make excuses for sins they do commit and say to themself they are just a sinner saved by grace. that is not salvation.
again, the grace of God means unwarranted favor.....God has redeemed us from sin and we are now righteous and no longer a sinner
the idea that Christians are going to sin can create the idea that 'oh well. it's ok. everyone sins.' it's not ok. we will sin, but it cannot be a habitual sin or a lifestyle choice. as believers, if we are truly believers and not just mouthing what we think is what others want to hear, we will understand that sin harms our relationship with God and we will seek to live a life that pleases God.
God calls us His child....NOT a sinner saved by grace. you will not find the expression 'sinner saved by grace as identity' anywhere in scripture. so, if you continue to call yourself that, you are not believing what the Bible says
Am I still one of the lost He is trying to find? Well He said He came to call the sinner to repent. Hmm so what am I now that have repented and that dept has been paid that sin as the Father said He will remember no more. If Christ died for all my sins.. what is He remembering? Was not that CROSS enough? So for me knowing I am now free, knowing from Him asking me what is righteousness and how do you get righteousness. Well truth? It hurts. There is NO WAY I can sin and get away with it so to speak. Just say forgive me? "I already died for you". That hurts. NO ONE but NO ONE Loves us this way.
There is always a price to pay. Yeah I have never in 61 years thought WOOT Now I can sin more! All it does for me is I want to fall on my face before Him can tell Him....haha right at this moment this song "He is Good" said "all of our words can never come close". Was thinking what I would say at His feet.. the song at the same moment...all of our words can never come close".
So am I a sinner lost needing salvation? See if you ask me how do I see me.. man I am a sinner I think I am still lost since I still sin if I loved Him I wouldn't blah blah blah. But when I stop listen.. see me through His eyes I am righteous holy and am seated in heavenly places I come boldly before Him not on my knees crying "save me I am so unworthy". He already died and its finished and He is seated at the right hand of the Father. There is so much in just that. So many things we pray ask for even beg for but its already been done. The Father sees me as a finished work...through Christ. HELLO faith..
There is always a price to pay. Yeah I have never in 61 years thought WOOT Now I can sin more! All it does for me is I want to fall on my face before Him can tell Him....haha right at this moment this song "He is Good" said "all of our words can never come close". Was thinking what I would say at His feet.. the song at the same moment...all of our words can never come close".
So am I a sinner lost needing salvation? See if you ask me how do I see me.. man I am a sinner I think I am still lost since I still sin if I loved Him I wouldn't blah blah blah. But when I stop listen.. see me through His eyes I am righteous holy and am seated in heavenly places I come boldly before Him not on my knees crying "save me I am so unworthy". He already died and its finished and He is seated at the right hand of the Father. There is so much in just that. So many things we pray ask for even beg for but its already been done. The Father sees me as a finished work...through Christ. HELLO faith..
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All born again Christians are saved sinners.
O wretched man that I am Romans 7:24 (KJV)
... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1 Tim 1:15 (KJV)
And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. 2 Sam 12:7 (KJV)
Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? 2 Sam 12:9 (KJV)
O wretched man that I am Romans 7:24 (KJV)
... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1 Tim 1:15 (KJV)
And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. 2 Sam 12:7 (KJV)
Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? 2 Sam 12:9 (KJV)
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are you aware of how many people in this country think they are Christians and also think they can just continue on as usual?
these people are not truly born again
if we are truly of Christ and filled with His Spirit we will begin to show a different character
you have some strange beliefs if you think Christians act like the rest of the world
I cor. 5:1...actually Paul said to throw that dude out of the congregation. in fact, he said to turn him over to the devil
smh
these people are not truly born again
if we are truly of Christ and filled with His Spirit we will begin to show a different character
you have some strange beliefs if you think Christians act like the rest of the world
I cor. 5:1...actually Paul said to throw that dude out of the congregation. in fact, he said to turn him over to the devil
smh
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do you reject scripture?
the wretched man is Paul without Christ and we are no longer under the old covenant and we do not have prophets pointing fingers at us if we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who will teach us and give us understanding if we submit to God
lets' look at Romans 7 :24 in context
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.
Paul does not end with saying he is a wretched sinner (as is everyone without Christ) He says thanks to God that he has been delivered from that sin by Jesus Christ!
it is not wise to try and make a point by using half a verse or using verses out of context
the wretched man is Paul without Christ and we are no longer under the old covenant and we do not have prophets pointing fingers at us if we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who will teach us and give us understanding if we submit to God
lets' look at Romans 7 :24 in context
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.
Paul does not end with saying he is a wretched sinner (as is everyone without Christ) He says thanks to God that he has been delivered from that sin by Jesus Christ!
it is not wise to try and make a point by using half a verse or using verses out of context
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see my post 147
Paul rejoiced that ALL his sins were forgiven. Do you know why he called himself the worst of sinners? it was because of his desire to kill believers.
I just do not get you folks who seem to rejoice in the fact you identify with sinners rather than with those who are redeemed
I don't know. Only you know if you are continuing in sin and think that's ok. I do know that those who live for Christ will struggle and we will never in our flesh be perfect in this world, but God says we are righteous in Christ.
Perhaps if a person does not believe that, they think belief or confession is all that is needed when actions indicate the actual facts of salvation.
Paul rejoiced that ALL his sins were forgiven. Do you know why he called himself the worst of sinners? it was because of his desire to kill believers.
I just do not get you folks who seem to rejoice in the fact you identify with sinners rather than with those who are redeemed
I don't know. Only you know if you are continuing in sin and think that's ok. I do know that those who live for Christ will struggle and we will never in our flesh be perfect in this world, but God says we are righteous in Christ.
Perhaps if a person does not believe that, they think belief or confession is all that is needed when actions indicate the actual facts of salvation.
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An old saying comes to mind
You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Horses are big animals and much stronger than we are. As a one time horse owner, I can attest to the fact that if you do not have the trust of your horse, you will continue having problems with that animal and sooner or later a person who is not familiar with them will think the problem lies with the horse.
In the same sense, a person who does not trust will continue to reject believing they are righteous in God's plan through Christ. They will back off and continue to say I'm a sinner
If you do that, you are identifying with your sin. you will continue to sin. It's your choice.
No one can force you to 'drink' from the Holy Spirit. you can just be stubborn and hang on to what is comfortable to you
It is of no use to continue responding to continuing claims of some people who prefer to identify as sinners
Comfort each other and agree with each other but you are not identifying with Christ in His death.
It's your life and you are free to live it as you will. After all, it really is your life if you choose to say you are a sinner and I am sorry to say that but there is no indication you see anything else.
Perhaps one or two now have a better understanding of our position in Christ and how God identifies us...
You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Horses are big animals and much stronger than we are. As a one time horse owner, I can attest to the fact that if you do not have the trust of your horse, you will continue having problems with that animal and sooner or later a person who is not familiar with them will think the problem lies with the horse.
In the same sense, a person who does not trust will continue to reject believing they are righteous in God's plan through Christ. They will back off and continue to say I'm a sinner
If you do that, you are identifying with your sin. you will continue to sin. It's your choice.
No one can force you to 'drink' from the Holy Spirit. you can just be stubborn and hang on to what is comfortable to you
It is of no use to continue responding to continuing claims of some people who prefer to identify as sinners
Comfort each other and agree with each other but you are not identifying with Christ in His death.
It's your life and you are free to live it as you will. After all, it really is your life if you choose to say you are a sinner and I am sorry to say that but there is no indication you see anything else.
Perhaps one or two now have a better understanding of our position in Christ and how God identifies us...
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What if you said, “I was a sinner saved by grace. Now I am a child of God who sometimes sins.”
People who actually come to accept and believe this biblical truth actually sin less and are much more aware of when they do sin.
God does not lie and He does not call believers sinners saved by grace. God calls us His child but we choose to believe or reject this wonderful truth. We will live according to what we believe. If a person does not believe in electricity, they will sit in the dark and not flip the light switch
Even so, people who choose to think of themselves as sinners may very well continue in that sin. These are life changing decisions and choosing to believe what God says about us will change your life and encourage your walk with Him.
John 1:12 I am God's child
John 15:15 As a disciple, I am a friend of Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1 I have been justified (declared righteous).
1 Corinthians 6:17 I am united with the Lord, and I am one with Him in spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 I have been bought with a price and I belong to God.
1 Corinthians 12:27 I am a member of Christ's body.
Ephesians 1:3-8 I have been chosen by God and adopted as His child.
Colossians 1:13-14 I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins.
Colossians 2:9-10 I am complete in Christ.
Hebrews 4:14-16 I have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:1-2 I am free from condemnation.
Romans 8:28 I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances.
Romans 8:31-39 I am free from any condemnation brought against me and I cannot be separated from the love of God.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 I have been established, anointed and sealed by God.
Colossians 3:1-4 I am hidden with Christ in God.
Philippians 1:6 I am confident that God will complete the good work He started in me.
Philippians 3:20 I am a citizen of heaven.
2 Timothy 1:7 I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind.
1 John 5:18 I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me.
John 15:5 I am a branch of Jesus Christ, the true vine, and a channel of His life.
John 15:16 I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit.
1 Corinthians 3:16 I am God's temple.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 I am a minister of reconciliation for God.
Ephesians 2:6 I am seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenly realm.
Ephesians 2:10 I am God's workmanship.
Ephesians 3:12 I may approach God with freedom and confidence.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
People who actually come to accept and believe this biblical truth actually sin less and are much more aware of when they do sin.
God does not lie and He does not call believers sinners saved by grace. God calls us His child but we choose to believe or reject this wonderful truth. We will live according to what we believe. If a person does not believe in electricity, they will sit in the dark and not flip the light switch
Even so, people who choose to think of themselves as sinners may very well continue in that sin. These are life changing decisions and choosing to believe what God says about us will change your life and encourage your walk with Him.
John 1:12 I am God's child
John 15:15 As a disciple, I am a friend of Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1 I have been justified (declared righteous).
1 Corinthians 6:17 I am united with the Lord, and I am one with Him in spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 I have been bought with a price and I belong to God.
1 Corinthians 12:27 I am a member of Christ's body.
Ephesians 1:3-8 I have been chosen by God and adopted as His child.
Colossians 1:13-14 I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins.
Colossians 2:9-10 I am complete in Christ.
Hebrews 4:14-16 I have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:1-2 I am free from condemnation.
Romans 8:28 I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances.
Romans 8:31-39 I am free from any condemnation brought against me and I cannot be separated from the love of God.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 I have been established, anointed and sealed by God.
Colossians 3:1-4 I am hidden with Christ in God.
Philippians 1:6 I am confident that God will complete the good work He started in me.
Philippians 3:20 I am a citizen of heaven.
2 Timothy 1:7 I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind.
1 John 5:18 I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me.
John 15:5 I am a branch of Jesus Christ, the true vine, and a channel of His life.
John 15:16 I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit.
1 Corinthians 3:16 I am God's temple.
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 I am a minister of reconciliation for God.
Ephesians 2:6 I am seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenly realm.
Ephesians 2:10 I am God's workmanship.
Ephesians 3:12 I may approach God with freedom and confidence.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.
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Of course they're saved sinners.
That's why we can no longer identify ourselves as sinners.
All those passages by the apostles and Jesus saying we are reborn , redeemed, don't make a habit of sinning else we do not know him.
If someone identified as a sinner that's God's will.
They're not Christian. Because the Christian is someone reborn in Christ. Redeemed from sin. No longer known by God as separated from him by their sin nature but rather born with a new nature. The old has gone. The new has arrived.
Praise the Lord his mercy and grace!💞🕊️✝️
That's why we can no longer identify ourselves as sinners.
All those passages by the apostles and Jesus saying we are reborn , redeemed, don't make a habit of sinning else we do not know him.
If someone identified as a sinner that's God's will.
They're not Christian. Because the Christian is someone reborn in Christ. Redeemed from sin. No longer known by God as separated from him by their sin nature but rather born with a new nature. The old has gone. The new has arrived.
Praise the Lord his mercy and grace!💞🕊️✝️
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FreeGrace2 said:
Paul called himself the "worst of sinners", and in the present tense. You don't have an argument.
You are not a mind reader, so you have no idea what he actually was thinking about. However, the key here is how he described himself as the worst of sinners in the present tense. Not past tense from a past life.
I identify as a human being. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Rom 3:23
I identify as a new creature (2 Cor 5:17), having been born again (1 pet 1:23) and sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) as a child of God (John 1:12, Gal 3:26).
Paul called himself the "worst of sinners", and in the present tense. You don't have an argument.
You are not a mind reader, so you have no idea what he actually was thinking about. However, the key here is how he described himself as the worst of sinners in the present tense. Not past tense from a past life.
I identify as a human being. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Rom 3:23
I identify as a new creature (2 Cor 5:17), having been born again (1 pet 1:23) and sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13) as a child of God (John 1:12, Gal 3:26).
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The word of God says in 1 John 5: 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. The next question should be. what is sin? Let's go into (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in (Rom. 7:7,12) (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET.
Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.
(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. So we know that the law is good
Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).
Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law.
(v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. So we know that the law is good
Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.
Which mean we can do as we please when we please! People we must realize everybody has laws by which we must operate by, the governments have laws, your job have laws, your card games have laws, even the boy scouts have laws. Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).
The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).
A Christian is a light walker and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all... I started to write this some days ago and decided to leave it there and come back to it to try and flesh that thought, from 1 John 1, out. Righteousness does not come by the law since the law just "makes" sinners. Jesus makes the righteous, or our faith makes us righteous. So, there are lighter walkers and dark walkers but all have sin.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1John1:8), the context here compares those that walk in darkness to those that walk in the light, as He is in the light, and effectively calls those who say they have no sin liars.
So, it seems to me that there are those that can see their sin, because of the light, and those blind to it, because they are in darkness.
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1John1:8), the context here compares those that walk in darkness to those that walk in the light, as He is in the light, and effectively calls those who say they have no sin liars.
So, it seems to me that there are those that can see their sin, because of the light, and those blind to it, because they are in darkness.