Seven deadly sins

[persistent]

Anyone familiar with AA or possibly other twelve step programs or possibly the actual origin of seven deadly sins.
Is this biblically based? If not what is the origin and is it significant to Christianity?

 

[studentoftheword]

these are listed as the seven deadly sins ----

Lust, sloth, greed, gluttony, wrath, envy, and pride ----

These are talked about in Scripture for sure --- but will they kill you --don't think so -----some people have killed others over Lust ---greed ---envy -and wrath ----Sloth will get you homeless and hungry -----and pride makes you have a puffed up ego -----the wages of sin is spiritual death ----that is what I think

 

[Ted01]

Anyone familiar with AA or possibly other twelve step programs or possibly the actual origin of seven deadly sins.
Is this biblically based? If not what is the origin and is it significant to Christianity?

I am familiar with both 12-Step & the 7-deadly sins.
12-Step doesn't talk much about the 7-deadly sins... I've never experienced it anyway.

I was raised as in the RCC, and that's where I first heard them listed and discussed. I'm pretty sure that it's a RCC fabrication.

 

[Polar]

alas

all sins are deadly

 

[persistent]

these are listed as the seven deadly sins ----

Lust, sloth, greed, gluttony, wrath, envy, and pride ----

These are talked about in Scripture for sure --- but will they kill you --don't think so -----some people have killed others over Lust ---greed ---envy -and wrath ----Sloth will get you homeless and hungry -----and pride makes you have a puffed up ego -----the wages of sin is spiritual death ----that is what I think

Interesting the way you list them. AA claims pride as the first one and possibly 'more deadly'. Recently I have listened to the linked sermon of Charles Spurgeon some 3 or 4 times and within the first 10 minutes it sounds to me that Cain was really filled with pride regarding his offering and this is not mentioned by Spurgeon. Could it be something Spurgeon overlooked or am I reading something into Spurgeon's sermon. It may be worth a listen. Maybe it is also envy of Able's acceptable offering. That would be 2 of the 7.????
https://www.spurgeongems.org/audio/144chs.mp3

 

[persistent]

I am familiar with both 12-Step & the 7-deadly sins.
12-Step doesn't talk much about the 7-deadly sins... I've never experienced it anyway.

I was raised as in the RCC, and that's where I first heard them listed and discussed. I'm pretty sure that it's a RCC fabrication.

I was raised RCC too and completed the communion and confirmation but don't recall any of the teaching through 7th grade at RCC school. Since AA has roots in what is known as the Oxford Movement out of Great Britain it could be the roots of the 7 also as Wiki shows the Oxford Movement was also known as 'Tractarian' and an ecumenical attempt to meld RCC with Anglicans and I recently have talked with a Mennonite preacher here in the Chicago area and he claims the Mennonites are also trying to meld with RCC. One big happy religion???? What this has to do with the 7.....??? Just hit me. Any significance in the number 7 being 'completion'????? ps my sobriety date is 4 Aug. 1989 but did use God as higher power till about 2017.

 

[Ted01]

I was raised RCC too and completed the communion and confirmation but don't recall any of the teaching through 7th grade at RCC school. Since AA has roots in what is known as the Oxford Movement out of Great Britain it could be the roots of the 7 also as Wiki shows the Oxford Movement was also known as 'Tractarian' and an ecumenical attempt to meld RCC with Anglicans and I recently have talked with a Mennonite preacher here in the Chicago area and he claims the Mennonites are also trying to meld with RCC. One big happy religion???? What this has to do with the 7.....??? Just hit me. Any significance in the number 7 being 'completion'????? ps my sobriety date is 4 Aug. 1989 but did use God as higher power till about 2017.

I don't know much about the Oxford Movement, but have heard it mentioned a number of times.

I'm thrilled by the text I've emboldened... yay you!! Praise God!!
Mine is 11 Nov. 2019.

 

[studentoftheword]

Cain was really filled with pride regarding his offering and this is not mentioned by Spurgeon.

I would agree that Cain gave his offering out of a hardened prideful heart as he knew better as there were laws to follow for offering the fruits of the harvest -----and he brought what he wanted the way he wanted ----and killed his brother our of envy ----

 

[persistent]

alas

all sins are deadly

Some of this was discussed on another thread which I am not sure which but seems that there was some agreement that some sins are more sinful than others. So I guess the way you are saying here is related to the verse that mentions something like breaking the least of the law puts a person in the worthy of death category till repentant. You certainly have an economy of words in your reply.

 

[oyster67]

alas

all sins are deadly

Yes, if they are not repented of.

 

[oyster67]

Some of this was discussed on another thread which I am not sure which but seems that there was some agreement that some sins are more sinful than others. So I guess the way you are saying here is related to the verse that mentions something like breaking the least of the law puts a person in the worthy of death category till repentant. You certainly have an economy of words in your reply.

The root of all sin is rebellion against God, His Word, and His Way.

 

[DJT_47]

In reality, they are all deadly unless forgiven.

 

[Inquisitor]

Anyone familiar with AA or possibly other twelve step programs or possibly the actual origin of seven deadly sins.
Is this biblically based? If not what is the origin and is it significant to Christianity?

1935 is marked by AA as its starting year when a newly sober Bill Wilson (Bill W.) first commiserated with the alcoholic Bob Smith (Dr. Bob) and brought him into AA’s precursor the Christian revivalist Oxford Group.[13] Leaving the Oxford Group to form a fellowship of alcoholics only, Wilson and Smith, along with other early members, wrote Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How More Than One Hundred Men Have Recovered From Alcoholism, from which AA acquired its name. Published in 1939 and commonly called "the Big Book", it contains AA's Twelve Step recovery program.[14] Later editions included the Twelve Traditions, first adopted in 1946 to formalize and unify the fellowship as a benign anarchy.[14] (wiki)

 

[Nehemiah6]

If not what is the origin and is it significant to Christianity?

The Catholic Church divides sins into "mortal" and "venial" as shown below in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:

"...The division of sin into original and actual, mortal and venial, is not a division of genus into species because sin has not the same signification when applied to original and personal sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sin cuts us off entirely from our true last end; venial sin only impedes us in its attainment.

Actual personal sin is voluntary by a proper act of the will. Original sin is voluntary not by a personal voluntary act of ours, but by an act of the will of Adam. Original and actual sin are distinguished by the manner in which they are voluntary (ex parte actus); mortal and venial sin by the way in which they affect our relation to God (ex parte deordinationis). Since a voluntary act and its disorder are of the essence of sin, it is impossible that sin should be a generic term in respect to original and actual, mortal and venial sin.

The true nature of sin is found perfectly only in a personal mortal sin, in other sins imperfectly, so that sin is predicated primarily of actual sin, only secondarily of the others. Therefore we shall consider: first, personal mortal sin; second, venial sin.

Mortal sin
Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Reply to Faustus XXII.27) as "Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam", i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The definition of St. Augustine is accepted generally by theologians and is primarily a definition of actual mortal sin. It explains well the material and formal elements of sin. The words "dictum vel factum vel concupitum" denote the material element of sin, a human act: "contra legem æternam", the formal element. The act is bad because it transgresses the Divine law. St. Ambrose (De paradiso, viii) defines sin as a "prevarication of the Divine law". [Note: The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the Law"].

The definition of St. Augustine strictly considered, i.e. as sin averts us from our true ultimate end, does not comprehend venial sin, but in as much as venial sin is in a manner contrary to the Divine law, although not averting us from our last end, it may be said to be included in the definition as it stands.

While primarily a definition of sins of commission, sins of omission may be included in the definition because they presuppose some positive act (St. Thomas, I-II:71:5) and negation and affirmation are reduced to the same genus. Sins that violate the human or the natural law are also included, for what is contrary to the human or natural law is also contrary to the Divine law, in as much as every just human law is derived from the Divine law, and is not just unless it is in conformity with the Divine law..."

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 6:16-19 plus 12

 

[persistent]

The Catholic Church divides sins into "mortal" and "venial" as shown below in the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia:

"...The division of sin into original and actual, mortal and venial, is not a division of genus into species because sin has not the same signification when applied to original and personal sin, mortal and venial. Mortal sin cuts us off entirely from our true last end; venial sin only impedes us in its attainment.

Actual personal sin is voluntary by a proper act of the will. Original sin is voluntary not by a personal voluntary act of ours, but by an act of the will of Adam. Original and actual sin are distinguished by the manner in which they are voluntary (ex parte actus); mortal and venial sin by the way in which they affect our relation to God (ex parte deordinationis). Since a voluntary act and its disorder are of the essence of sin, it is impossible that sin should be a generic term in respect to original and actual, mortal and venial sin.

The true nature of sin is found perfectly only in a personal mortal sin, in other sins imperfectly, so that sin is predicated primarily of actual sin, only secondarily of the others. Therefore we shall consider: first, personal mortal sin; second, venial sin.

Mortal sin
Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Reply to Faustus XXII.27) as "Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem æternam", i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

The definition of St. Augustine is accepted generally by theologians and is primarily a definition of actual mortal sin. It explains well the material and formal elements of sin. The words "dictum vel factum vel concupitum" denote the material element of sin, a human act: "contra legem æternam", the formal element. The act is bad because it transgresses the Divine law. St. Ambrose (De paradiso, viii) defines sin as a "prevarication of the Divine law". [Note: The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the Law"].

The definition of St. Augustine strictly considered, i.e. as sin averts us from our true ultimate end, does not comprehend venial sin, but in as much as venial sin is in a manner contrary to the Divine law, although not averting us from our last end, it may be said to be included in the definition as it stands.

While primarily a definition of sins of commission, sins of omission may be included in the definition because they presuppose some positive act (St. Thomas, I-II:71:5) and negation and affirmation are reduced to the same genus. Sins that violate the human or the natural law are also included, for what is contrary to the human or natural law is also contrary to the Divine law, in as much as every just human law is derived from the Divine law, and is not just unless it is in conformity with the Divine law..."

Thnx for the post. Seven years of Catholic grammar school with teachings from people who were educated according to this doctrine makes me say, "now I know why I didn't want anything to do with religion". I guess the priest is finally told, 'just tell them to do a lap around the beads.'

 

[Runningman]

Anyone familiar with AA or possibly other twelve step programs or possibly the actual origin of seven deadly sins.
Is this biblically based? If not what is the origin and is it significant to Christianity?

I know about AA. It isn’t necessarily Christian-based, but they do encourage people to seek a higher power and/or a god of their understanding. In my experience, they set aside a number of meetings through the week that may be more Bible-based than the other ones. I think almost all of the meetings end in some sort of prayer, often the serenity prayer, don’t necessarily address the prayer to God as we know Him as Christians.

Yes they are a 12 step program. AA goers are supposed to start with step one until they work to step 12. The main objective is they share stories about what alcohol has done to them and how they may overcome it. It’s a support group, but sometimes the meetings can have a cult feel to them, but they aren’t a cult.

I grew up being taken to AA meetings so I know a lot about it.

 

[persistent]

Proverbs 6:16-19 plus 12

The 7 deadlies are related to these verses???...My brain!!!???seven seven one of my favorites as a kid and why did Seagram's use 7???
And then God's number representing 'completion'?????...I see the Devil at work here somewhere!!!>>Particularly with Seagram's & Co..

 

[persistent]

I know about AA. It isn’t necessarily Christian-based, but they do encourage people to seek a higher power and a god of their understanding. In my experience, they set aside a number of meetings through the week that may be more Bible-based than the other ones. I think almost all of the meetings end in some sort of prayer, often the serenity prayer, don’t necessarily address the prayer to God as we know Him as Christians.

Yes they are a 12 step program. AA goers are supposed to start with step one until they work to step 12. The main objective is they share stories about what alcohol has done to them and how they may overcome it. It’s. A support group.

I started with AA 1989 and was antagonistic toward the 'higher power' and the last meeting I chaired around 2016 we cut out all praying. The independence of each meeting is one of the successful aspects of the program. Someone fortunate enough to encounter the meeting type which 'appeals' to them is why an individual might in AA parlance 'keep coming back'.

 

[persistent]

I don't know much about the Oxford Movement, but have heard it mentioned a number of times.

I'm thrilled by the text I've emboldened... yay you!! Praise God!!
Mine is 11 Nov. 2019.

Congratulations on 3 yrs. and keep coming back! Sorry about being late. Actually stumbled on this post but nice to know of the company. Maybe we could do the recovery thread if you know about it. All my yrs and still focus on the aqua vitae at times. 4 Aug 89. Not that I get squirrelly but strange phenomenon. Just this morning posted Johnny Cash 'Sunday Morning Coming Down' and never was much of CW fan. If you are not interested in recovery thread that's fine. I post there on my own.