Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Are you aware that this verse relates directly to Acts 15:24 - We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
Do you what this was referring to?
Acts 15:1-5
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad.
4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The "certain people" in v.1 who were teaching believers are the same as the red words in v.5.
So 1 Jn 2:19 isn't about unbelievers infiltrating the church, but rather, believers who are confused and follow false doctrines.
Just as the confused believers who claimed believers needed to be circumcised to be saved (v.1) today we have confused believers who claim that a believer must be water baptized to be saved.
Same principle, different ceremonies.
Do you what this was referring to?
Acts 15:1-5
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.
3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad.
4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The "certain people" in v.1 who were teaching believers are the same as the red words in v.5.
So 1 Jn 2:19 isn't about unbelievers infiltrating the church, but rather, believers who are confused and follow false doctrines.
Just as the confused believers who claimed believers needed to be circumcised to be saved (v.1) today we have confused believers who claim that a believer must be water baptized to be saved.
Same principle, different ceremonies.
My view on whether your imaginary friend is saved?
I'm sorry I didn't give you a faster answer and wanted clarification.
I'm sorry I didn't give you a faster answer and wanted clarification.
-
1
- Show all
the problem with this line of thinking is people are putting the onus of eternal salvation on the person.
we can not earn salvation by anything we do
if we can not earn salvation. we can not unlearn salvation.
a christian can backslide, and stunt his or her growth.
but a christian can not fall away.m unless he could earn his salvation to begin with.
the author of hebrews made it clear. it is impossible if one falls away, to renew them to repentance. If salvation could be lost because we failed to meet a standard (the law as it is in context) then they can not be renewed.
Saying one can lose salvation puts christ in open shame. It says his death was not sufficient, and he failed.
we can not earn salvation by anything we do
if we can not earn salvation. we can not unlearn salvation.
a christian can backslide, and stunt his or her growth.
but a christian can not fall away.m unless he could earn his salvation to begin with.
the author of hebrews made it clear. it is impossible if one falls away, to renew them to repentance. If salvation could be lost because we failed to meet a standard (the law as it is in context) then they can not be renewed.
Saying one can lose salvation puts christ in open shame. It says his death was not sufficient, and he failed.
-
1
- Show all
Individually we need the full assurance of salvation and OSAS doesn't give it to you because if you fall away then hey, you were never saved to begin with even though you did everything they told you and they said that once you are saved you are always saved.
Can you imagine you have a fruit tree, you take care of it, after about three years it is starting to bear fruit and then you don't water it anymore, it dries up and dies. What does OSAS say?
1. Tree was never alive.
or
2. Tree is saved but will suffer loss, so as through fire.
This is a useless doctrine if you don't want your Christian life to dry up and wither away.
Can you imagine you have a fruit tree, you take care of it, after about three years it is starting to bear fruit and then you don't water it anymore, it dries up and dies. What does OSAS say?
1. Tree was never alive.
or
2. Tree is saved but will suffer loss, so as through fire.
This is a useless doctrine if you don't want your Christian life to dry up and wither away.
Why?
Jeremiah 38:2 Thus saith the Lord, He that remaineth in this city shall die by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence: but he that goeth forth to the Chaldeans shall live; for he shall have his life for a prey, and shall live.
How can you hear this word and not ask why? If I was a devout Jew, Jerusalem in the city of our God and yet I am being told I must leave Jerusalem and go to Babylon for 70 years. Why?
This is not the only time. The Jews were slaves to Pharaoh, they served the Philistines, Assyria ruled over them, the Medo Persians ruled over them, the Greeks ruled over them and the Romans ruled over them. Why?
We are being trained to be kings. What better training than to live as the bottom rung of a society to see what it is like under their kingship. I played football, my first coach was the best coach I have ever seen and my second coach was the worst. It is very instructive to be under both and to see the contrast. I have had excellent teachers and lousy teachers, same concept. I have worked for good companies and horrible companies, same concept.
Jeremiah 38:2 Thus saith the Lord, He that remaineth in this city shall die by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence: but he that goeth forth to the Chaldeans shall live; for he shall have his life for a prey, and shall live.
How can you hear this word and not ask why? If I was a devout Jew, Jerusalem in the city of our God and yet I am being told I must leave Jerusalem and go to Babylon for 70 years. Why?
This is not the only time. The Jews were slaves to Pharaoh, they served the Philistines, Assyria ruled over them, the Medo Persians ruled over them, the Greeks ruled over them and the Romans ruled over them. Why?
We are being trained to be kings. What better training than to live as the bottom rung of a society to see what it is like under their kingship. I played football, my first coach was the best coach I have ever seen and my second coach was the worst. It is very instructive to be under both and to see the contrast. I have had excellent teachers and lousy teachers, same concept. I have worked for good companies and horrible companies, same concept.
Grandpa said:
If they fall away they weren't saved to begin with.
That is actually what many Calvinists think. For them, the "P" in TULIP means "perseverance" so any believer who loses faith was never saved to begin with.
If they fall away they weren't saved to begin with.
That is actually what many Calvinists think. For them, the "P" in TULIP means "perseverance" so any believer who loses faith was never saved to begin with.
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
-
3
- Show all