Christians Are Not Sinners

[Runningman]

Believers are those who HAVE believed in the Savior and received eternal life WHEN they believed, and for THAT reason, shall never perish. That is from Jesus Himself. It would do you well to believe Jesus.


Actually, the Bible doesn't SAY what you SAY. That's the rub for you.


Why would I need any since Jesus Himself SAID that believers possess eternal life and shall never perish.

OH, and to go along with that, there are no verses that say that the gift of eternal life can be revoked, lost, given away, or any other silly thing that Arminians come up with.

So, that means, once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

All you need for support for your claim is a verse that clearly says that eternal life can be lost/etc, or that ceasing to believe will result in condemnation.

Instead, we have the very clear words of Jesus about believers possessing eternal life from the MOMENT they believe and the result is that they shall never perish.

We also have Paul's words: "having believed", that person is sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a deposit guaranteeing an inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5

You have no excuse for your stunning stubbornness.

The truth is stubborn like that.

You’ll find a study of the Bible confirms that continued faith is required. You have no excuse for being this lazy when it comes to the Bible since you seem to spend so much time in it. Try reading it all slowly. Don’t say no one tried to help you see it.

 

[EDENgate]

Does the Word of God say any of this? No. The Bible says "Samuel told Saul...". You are believing a fallacy.


I quoted the verse where Samuel told Saul that Saul would be WITH HIM tomorrow.

They sound the same in their Eisegesis don't they? VARob and Runningman.

Totally works based ideas, denounce eternal Salvation by God's grace.

God saves.God calls us to him.

We who are there don't argue people into righteous faith or to Salvation. That's God.

Those who deny eternal Salvation and insist God is not Sovereign for needing our cooperation to let him save us don't know this.

Only God changes that.

 

[Runningman]

They sound the same in their Eisegesis don't they? VARob and Runningman.

Totally works based ideas, denounce eternal Salvation by God's grace.

I don’t denounce that and I’m pretty sure @VARob doesn't either since Ephesians 2:8,9 confirms we are saved by grace through faith. The part you seem to be at odds with the gospel of Christ is on the point that the faith is your faith.

I’ve proved repeatedly, using the New Testament, that, provided you don’t lose faith, and you believe in the gospel, you have eternal salvation. If one loses faith then they’ve fallen from grace.

I’ve put down the verses for you to read, but if you want to understand them maybe you should pray to God to open your understanding. I can’t do that part for you.

 

[EDENgate]

I don’t denounce that and I’m pretty sure @VARob doesn't either since Ephesians 2:8,9 confirms we are saved by grace through faith. The part you seem to be at odds with the gospel of Christ is on the point that the faith is your faith.

I’ve proved repeatedly, using the New Testament, that, provided you don’t lose faith, and you believe in the gospel, you have eternal salvation. If one loses faith then they’ve fallen from grace.

I’ve put down the verses for you to read, but if you want to understand them maybe you should pray to God to open your understanding. I can’t do that part for you.

My dear sir, you demonstrate repeatedly in your Eisegesis in this and other threads your purpose intent is not to assist understanding of the Gospel.

The Bible does not sustain your limited repeated rhetoric that you post to that end.

Your intention is not of Christ because you have no understanding of scripture.

Yours and that of your companion is what some know as Auto-Theist Eisegesis.
Thinking you need to assist God in his work.

I respect that is very obviously how you live your life.
However, your ideology has absolutely no semblance if relationship to the Gospel of Jesus Christ whatsoever.

And as such you are the only thing you and your companion in Virginia are able to accomplish in your broken record limited Eisegesis efforts here is to serve as a warning. As we witness the natural minded individual struggle to stand against the eternal irrevocable truth of God in Christ and within us.

Your shorthand underlying message behind that effort to denounce the true power of the Gospel reading as,
''IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE!''


You and yours will discover Matthew 7 is.



Eisegesis

noun

1. A subjective method of interpretation by introducing one's own opinions into the original: opposed to exegesis.
2. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there. Compare exegesis.
3. personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas

 

[FreeGrace2]

The truth is stubborn like that.

You have rejected the truth. Believers possess eternal life. John 5:24
Those given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You need a verse that SAYS eternal life can be removed, etc. And you don't have any.

You’ll find a study of the Bible confirms that continued faith is required.

You just totally misunderstand the Bible. The MOMENT one believes, they become a believer, and the believer possesses eternal life.

You have no excuse for being this lazy when it comes to the Bible since you seem to spend so much time in it. Try reading it all slowly. Don’t say no one tried to help you see it.

Knock it off. You simply reject very clear words.

You cannot refute the FACT that believers possess eternal life. Jn 5:24.
You cannot refute the FACT that those given eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

 

[VARob]

My dear sir, you demonstrate repeatedly in your Eisegesis in this and other threads your purpose intent is not to assist understanding of the Gospel.

The Bible does not sustain your limited repeated rhetoric that you post to that end.

Your intention is not of Christ because you have no understanding of scripture.

Yours and that of your companion is what some know as Auto-Theist Eisegesis.
Thinking you need to assist God in his work.

I respect that is very obviously how you live your life.
However, your ideology has absolutely no semblance if relationship to the Gospel of Jesus Christ whatsoever.

And as such you are the only thing you and your companion in Virginia are able to accomplish in your broken record limited Eisegesis efforts here is to serve as a warning. As we witness the natural minded individual struggle to stand against the eternal irrevocable truth of God in Christ and within us.

Your shorthand underlying message behind that effort to denounce the true power of the Gospel reading as,
''IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE!''


You and yours will discover Matthew 7 is.



Eisegesis

noun

1. A subjective method of interpretation by introducing one's own opinions into the original: opposed to exegesis.
2. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there. Compare exegesis.
3. personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas

lol… Dude, you’re a trip. The air must be pretty thin way up there on that pedestal where you’ve perched yourself.

I don’t have time for this.

 

[EDENgate]

lol… Dude, you’re a trip. The air must be pretty thin way up there on that pedestal where you’ve perched yourself.

I don’t have time for this.

Thank you my Father for letting that one prove your point.


Clearly you did have time.

The pedestal is the Gospel. It rises above all else as eternal truth that never expires.

And no effort made by those in the pit will EVER stand against it. Though obviously you try.

 

[EDENgate]

You have rejected the truth. Believers possess eternal life. John 5:24
Those given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You need a verse that SAYS eternal life can be removed, etc. And you don't have any.


You just totally misunderstand the Bible. The MOMENT one believes, they become a believer, and the believer possesses eternal life.


Knock it off. You simply reject very clear words.

You cannot refute the FACT that believers possess eternal life. Jn 5:24.
You cannot refute the FACT that those given eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

Have you members here who insist Jesus was just a man with a sin nature,though he chose not to sin?

I was browsing a Bible discussion site when I found threads containing those same arguments that ironically coupled with the Eisegesis we witness in these boards.

 

[Runningman]

You have rejected the truth. Believers possess eternal life. John 5:24
Those given eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

You need a verse that SAYS eternal life can be removed, etc. And you don't have any.


You just totally misunderstand the Bible. The MOMENT one believes, they become a believer, and the believer possesses eternal life.


Knock it off. You simply reject very clear words.

You cannot refute the FACT that believers possess eternal life. Jn 5:24.
You cannot refute the FACT that those given eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28

Those with eternal life never perish and if they keep their faith to the end they’ll receive eternal life. All Bible, man. Sadly, it’s always the ones who accuse others of doing exactly what it is that they themselves are doing. Notice I don’t need to defend anything because the Bible does all the work.

You’re the one who seems desperate to make me out as some kind of unbeliever rather than refuting any of the verses I’ve showed you. Bottom line is it’s impossible to defend falsehoods for long. Eventually your ever-receding position has been reduced to an island of heresy floating in a sea of truth. You have no excuse. Wake up.

 

[Runningman]

My dear sir, you demonstrate repeatedly in your Eisegesis in this and other threads your purpose intent is not to assist understanding of the Gospel.

The Bible does not sustain your limited repeated rhetoric that you post to that end.

Your intention is not of Christ because you have no understanding of scripture.

Yours and that of your companion is what some know as Auto-Theist Eisegesis.
Thinking you need to assist God in his work.

I respect that is very obviously how you live your life.
However, your ideology has absolutely no semblance if relationship to the Gospel of Jesus Christ whatsoever.

And as such you are the only thing you and your companion in Virginia are able to accomplish in your broken record limited Eisegesis efforts here is to serve as a warning. As we witness the natural minded individual struggle to stand against the eternal irrevocable truth of God in Christ and within us.

Your shorthand underlying message behind that effort to denounce the true power of the Gospel reading as,
''IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE! IT'S NOT TRUE!''


You and yours will discover Matthew 7 is.



Eisegesis

noun

1. A subjective method of interpretation by introducing one's own opinions into the original: opposed to exegesis.
2. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there. Compare exegesis.
3. personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas

I have verses for everything I’ve shown. You seemed to have given up quoting scripture many comments ago and have instead deferred to your own commentary that amounts to nothing but hot air as far as I’m concerned. Get your Bible out and quote some scripture to back it up, like I already requested, if you can.

 

[VARob]

Why do Christian discussions almost ALWAYS deteriorate to belittling the people who disagree with you? People accuse each other of eisegesis (there’s no need to capitalize it..), of disagreeing with Jesus, of not being saved, of not being a Christian, of not reading the Bible, of being a gospel denier, of heresy, and on and on.

Quite the conundrum, eh? I doubt Jesus approves.

 

[TMS]

Do you think this judgment is about whether those who appear will go to heaven or hell?

You have made up your mind in this area.
It is another subject but I've given verses in the past and all the verses make sense if the dead are really dead. The dead now nothing and are waiting the resurrection. We will soon see.
But be careful the devil will use this lie to decieve many.

Until the judgement our eternal condition is not sealed. It is sealed when Jesus Judges us. Until then we can walk in the security and hope of salvation by faith.
"Hope" is different to unchanging certainty.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

OSAS is a false teaching to give security in sin.

 

[Runningman]

Why do Christian discussions almost ALWAYS deteriorate to belittling the people who disagree with you? People accuse each other of eisegesis (there’s no need to capitalize it..), of disagreeing with Jesus, of not being saved, of not being a Christian, of not reading the Bible, of being a gospel denier, of heresy, and on and on.

Quite the conundrum, eh? I doubt Jesus approves.

It seems some Christians love the idea that their opponents will be destroyed both, soul and body, in hell. Personally, I think that’s a terrible way to feel about others. God doesn’t want any to perish either. Just test those spirits and follow the Holy Spirit. By their fruits you’ll know them.

 

[Runningman]

You have made up your mind in this area.
It is another subject but I've given verses in the past and all the verses make sense if the dead are really dead. The dead now nothing and are waiting the resurrection. We will soon see.
But be careful the devil will use this lie to decieve many.

Until the judgement our eternal condition is not sealed. It is sealed when Jesus Judges us. Until then we can walk in the security and hope of salvation by faith.
"Hope" is different to unchanging certainty.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

OSAS is a false teaching to give security in sin.

What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for posting that. I understand the Bible the same way as what you said in that comment.

 

[TMS]

I said do you believe in probation?

Yes, it occurs in the American judicial system. But NO, it does not exist in the Bible

God gave probation to all of us. A time for us to decide.

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

“The Ancient of Days was seated. ... His throne was a fiery flame. ... The court [judgment] was seated, and the books were opened” (Daniel 7:9, 10).
“We have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).
“The Father ... has committed all judgment to the Son” (John 5:22).
“The Devil ... the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down” (Revelation 12:9, 10).

We can know by faith that Jesus will stand for us in the Judgement. It isn't finialized until we are sealed by the judgement (case closed) decision.

Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[EDENgate]

You have made up your mind in this area.
It is another subject but I've given verses in the past and all the verses make sense if the dead are really dead. The dead now nothing and are waiting the resurrection. We will soon see.
But be careful the devil will use this lie to decieve many.

Until the judgement our eternal condition is not sealed. It is sealed when Jesus Judges us. Until then we can walk in the security and hope of salvation by faith.
"Hope" is different to unchanging certainty.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

OSAS is a false teaching to give security in sin.

That's entirely false.

The Gospel is eternal security. Salvation eternally.

God knows and said what it means to be saved. And that includes talking about sin.

Not going to repeat those ignored scriptures so they are ignored again. However, the lie that insists Eternal Irrevocable Salvation is a license to sin, is a sin itself.

Because sin is unrelated to those in Christ.

The sinners, the proponents of the lie that insists the Gospel affords a license to sin, want to make us one with them.

The Gospel teaches us Salvation is eternal. And sin has no place in it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Have you members here who insist Jesus was just a man with a sin nature,though he chose not to sin?

What does "have you members here....." mean? Are you suggesting that I "have members here"?

I was browsing a Bible discussion site when I found threads containing those same arguments that ironically coupled with the Eisegesis we witness in these boards.

OK, now prove your claim that I have committed eisegesis with John 5:24 and 10:28. Or apologize for your sloppy reading.

 

[Ted01]

You have made up your mind in this area.
It is another subject but I've given verses in the past and all the verses make sense if the dead are really dead. The dead now nothing and are waiting the resurrection. We will soon see.
But be careful the devil will use this lie to decieve many.

Until the judgement our eternal condition is not sealed. It is sealed when Jesus Judges us. Until then we can walk in the security and hope of salvation by faith.
"Hope" is different to unchanging certainty.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

OSAS is a false teaching to give security in sin.

Sorry to intrude... I haven't back-read the entire thread... but just out of curiosity,
how do you understand this verse? (Since it seems contradictory to the portion I've highlighted)

Eph. 1 (ESV) 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Those with eternal life never perish and if they keep their faith to the end they’ll receive eternal life.

OK, let's just clear all this up, for once. You have NO verse that says all this. This is just your own opinion.

John 5:24 SAYS "whoever believes (present tense) HAS (present tense) eternal life." Do you have any idea what this means? When a person believes, at that MOMENT, they possess eternal life. Or prove me wrong. The very moment. You continue to believe that eternal life is only given at the end of one's life and after passing YOUR test of "keeping the faith". No verse says this and you know it.

You stepped on your own foot by your use of "if" in your response. No such verses.

All Bible, man.

No Bible on your part. Rejection of the Bible is more like it.

You’re the one who seems desperate to make me out as some kind of unbeliever rather than refuting any of the verses I’ve showed you.

For the record, I've NEVER challenged your spiritual status. Don't confuse me with anyone else, ok?

Bottom line is it’s impossible to defend falsehoods for long.

Jesus' words in Jn 5:24 and 10:28 are too clear to accuse me of "falsehoods" when I quote them repeatedly. You're the one who ignores key phrases and simply fails to comprehend the words.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you think this judgment is about whether those who appear will go to heaven or hell?

You have made up your mind in this area.

OK, I'll take that as an "I don't want to answer" or "I have no idea myself". But don't judge me based on your extremely limited understanding of me.

It is another subject but I've given verses in the past and all the verses make sense if the dead are really dead.

Of course the dead are dead. What else could they be?

The dead now nothing and are waiting the resurrection. We will soon see.

OK, got it. You use SDA-speak. Not interested in any of that. I've read all of the "28 beliefs" and I read them as heresy.

Until the judgement our eternal condition is not sealed.

This is heresy. Jesus said believers possess eternal life when they believe in John 5:24 and they shall never perish in John 10:28.

It is sealed when Jesus Judges us.

Glad you mentioned "sealed". Read Eph 1;13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5. These verses also guarantee eternal security. Through the sealing of the Holy Spirit for those "having believed".

Until then we can walk in the security and hope of salvation by faith.
"Hope" is different to unchanging certainty.

In the Greek, the word for "hope" means certainty. It's the opposite of how 'hope' is used today.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

OSAS is a false teaching to give security in sin.

This claim is a heresy as Jesus very clearly taught eternal security. As I've just noted. But you are free to choose whatever ideas you want.