Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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Nope, that isn’t what the verse says and this actually matters because your version changes who it’s talking about. Do be careful about changing words in the Bible going forward.
John 6:64
64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
Peter was entered by Satan as a believer. So that changes that theory.
Also, did you notice where Peter called Judas a believer in Jesus as the Holy One of God? And let me ask you an honest question, should someone believe you or what the Bible says?
John 6
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
John 6:64
64Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him.
Peter was entered by Satan as a believer. So that changes that theory.
Also, did you notice where Peter called Judas a believer in Jesus as the Holy One of God? And let me ask you an honest question, should someone believe you or what the Bible says?
John 6
68Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.”
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The fact that John puts the one who would betray him in the group of those who JESUS said does not believe. well. If you want to twist the word. Feel free..
Its impossible. And again, Peter was not a believer, if he was a believer he would not have done what he did.
Peter did not use Judas name
You claim Jesus did not say he was one who did not believe, yet now claim he is of those who do??
You can;t have it both ways man..
Its impossible. And again, Peter was not a believer, if he was a believer he would not have done what he did.
Peter did not use Judas name
You claim Jesus did not say he was one who did not believe, yet now claim he is of those who do??
You can;t have it both ways man..
Matthew 19
27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
As for Mat 19:
"Matthew 19
27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
I think what the verse shows is that (1) Jesus loved Judas and gave him a chance for salvation and Heaven. (2) He really wanted him to be saved, no less than the other 11 Apostles. After all, He died for all, which means (3) He died for Judas too. (4) As it says in 1 Tim 2:4 and 2 Pet 3:9, God showed in Judas, who imo typifies all the reprobate, that He really wants all to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (5) God washed Judas' feet no less than that of the other Apostles. And He gave him Holy Communion no less than all the other Apostles. So He gave him all the opportunities to be saved He gave to the other Apostles; He wasn't predestined to damnation or anything like that; yes, it was foreknown/foreseen that he would betray the Lord, but he could have confessed and repented of his sin, and ran to the Lord on the Cross, and the Blood of Christ would have fallen on him and washed his sin away. Instead, Judas, who till then was plotting Christ's murder thinking he could get away with anything, after the deed was done, immediately fell into despair probably thinking God could never forgive him (another trap from Satan; imo, the Enemy misleads us in two ways (1) First, before we sin, he tells us, no matter what we do, however, grave or wicked or serious it is, we will never lose the Holy Spirit; (2) then, after we sin, he tells us, now God will never forgive us. Another lie imo and the 2nd lie is worse than the first) and thus didn't go to God and so lost his soul.
So, I believe the verse contains a Conditional Promise and shows Conditional Security. Judas could have been saved, like the other 11 Apostles, and even had a throne in Heaven like them etc. Probably, later on, Matthias or Paul received it.
Here in 1 Samuel 2:30-33, we see another example of a Conditional Promise: "
30“Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained. 31The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your priestly house, so that no one in it will reach old age, 32and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, no one in your family line will ever reach old age. 33Every one of you that I do not cut off from serving at my altar I will spare only to destroy your sight and sap your strength, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life."
Here the Lord shows that obtaining the promises the Lord has given has some conditions. The Priests of Israel were given some simple commands. They were to bring the offering and make the sacrifices to the Lord. In this place, Eli's sons prevented people from doing that, taking and eating the sacrifices themselves. Hence the Word says their sin was great before the Lord, for they withdrew men from the Sacrifice of the Lord. And when they had thus violated His covenant demands in that manner, by that grave, persistent and willful sin, the Lord said the above. So also, imo, if Judas had wanted to be saved and receive that promise about the 12 thrones etc, he should have fulfilled the conditions required to obtain it, i.e. believed, persevered, repented etc.
God Bless
"Matthew 19
27Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”
28Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
I think what the verse shows is that (1) Jesus loved Judas and gave him a chance for salvation and Heaven. (2) He really wanted him to be saved, no less than the other 11 Apostles. After all, He died for all, which means (3) He died for Judas too. (4) As it says in 1 Tim 2:4 and 2 Pet 3:9, God showed in Judas, who imo typifies all the reprobate, that He really wants all to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (5) God washed Judas' feet no less than that of the other Apostles. And He gave him Holy Communion no less than all the other Apostles. So He gave him all the opportunities to be saved He gave to the other Apostles; He wasn't predestined to damnation or anything like that; yes, it was foreknown/foreseen that he would betray the Lord, but he could have confessed and repented of his sin, and ran to the Lord on the Cross, and the Blood of Christ would have fallen on him and washed his sin away. Instead, Judas, who till then was plotting Christ's murder thinking he could get away with anything, after the deed was done, immediately fell into despair probably thinking God could never forgive him (another trap from Satan; imo, the Enemy misleads us in two ways (1) First, before we sin, he tells us, no matter what we do, however, grave or wicked or serious it is, we will never lose the Holy Spirit; (2) then, after we sin, he tells us, now God will never forgive us. Another lie imo and the 2nd lie is worse than the first) and thus didn't go to God and so lost his soul.
So, I believe the verse contains a Conditional Promise and shows Conditional Security. Judas could have been saved, like the other 11 Apostles, and even had a throne in Heaven like them etc. Probably, later on, Matthias or Paul received it.
Here in 1 Samuel 2:30-33, we see another example of a Conditional Promise: "
30“Therefore the Lord, the God of Israel, declares: ‘I promised that members of your family would minister before me forever.’ But now the Lord declares: ‘Far be it from me! Those who honor me I will honor, but those who despise me will be disdained. 31The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your priestly house, so that no one in it will reach old age, 32and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, no one in your family line will ever reach old age. 33Every one of you that I do not cut off from serving at my altar I will spare only to destroy your sight and sap your strength, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life."
Here the Lord shows that obtaining the promises the Lord has given has some conditions. The Priests of Israel were given some simple commands. They were to bring the offering and make the sacrifices to the Lord. In this place, Eli's sons prevented people from doing that, taking and eating the sacrifices themselves. Hence the Word says their sin was great before the Lord, for they withdrew men from the Sacrifice of the Lord. And when they had thus violated His covenant demands in that manner, by that grave, persistent and willful sin, the Lord said the above. So also, imo, if Judas had wanted to be saved and receive that promise about the 12 thrones etc, he should have fulfilled the conditions required to obtain it, i.e. believed, persevered, repented etc.
God Bless
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Now back to more generic verses that touch on OSAS. 4 verses cited earlier.
1 Cor 9:24-28: "Run Your Race to Win
24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
This is 27 in the NKJV: "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."
The above passage was written about 15 years before Paul's death, as shown earlier. He said, at this time, he could still be cast away. He shows clearly we must run the race to obtain the prize/crown, otherwise we can be disqualified/cast away etc.
It was only shortly before his own death and glorious Martyrdom for the Lord, some 15 years later, around A.D. 67, after 33 years of ministry, that St. Paul the Apostle, now having persevered in the Faith until death, now says he knows he was not cast away, but kept the Faith, finished the course, and so will receive the Crown of Justice/Righteousness.
2 Tim 4:6 "For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing."
And this is explicitly confirmed in two other passages at least.
Rev 2:10, the Lord Himself: "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."
Here the Lord teaches us that, by His Grace, we can and should strive for faithfulness to death to attain our heavenly crown.
And St. James the Apostle Jam 1:12: "12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him."
These verses show to receive crowns from God - and all who go to Heaven will have some crown - we must persevere.
Those who say you need not persevere but can still be saved are mistaken. These verses we should strive to persevere.
God Bless.
1 Cor 9:24-28: "Run Your Race to Win
24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
This is 27 in the NKJV: "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."
The above passage was written about 15 years before Paul's death, as shown earlier. He said, at this time, he could still be cast away. He shows clearly we must run the race to obtain the prize/crown, otherwise we can be disqualified/cast away etc.
It was only shortly before his own death and glorious Martyrdom for the Lord, some 15 years later, around A.D. 67, after 33 years of ministry, that St. Paul the Apostle, now having persevered in the Faith until death, now says he knows he was not cast away, but kept the Faith, finished the course, and so will receive the Crown of Justice/Righteousness.
2 Tim 4:6 "For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing."
And this is explicitly confirmed in two other passages at least.
Rev 2:10, the Lord Himself: "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."
Here the Lord teaches us that, by His Grace, we can and should strive for faithfulness to death to attain our heavenly crown.
And St. James the Apostle Jam 1:12: "12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him."
These verses show to receive crowns from God - and all who go to Heaven will have some crown - we must persevere.
Those who say you need not persevere but can still be saved are mistaken. These verses we should strive to persevere.
God Bless.
😆
- Runningman is now following you.
Wednesday at 6:39 PM
Bro....salvation is a free gift. Rewards are a different matter.
Mat 20:8
“So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’
Mat 20:9
“And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.
Mat 20:10
“But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.
Mat 20:11
“And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,
Mat 20:12
“saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’
Mat 20:13
“But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
Mat 20:14
‘Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
Mat 20:15
‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’
Mat 20:16
“So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
Mat 20:8
“So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’
Mat 20:9
“And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.
Mat 20:10
“But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.
Mat 20:11
“And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,
Mat 20:12
“saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’
Mat 20:13
“But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
Mat 20:14
‘Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
Mat 20:15
‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’
Mat 20:16
“So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
That doctrine is no bueno bro. Being elect and sealed will always, inevitably lead ultimately to eternal glorification. Without exception.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
2Co 5:5
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
2Co 5:5
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
2Co 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rom 8:23
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
FreeGrace2 said:
Believers are recipients of eternal life, which is WHEN they believe and become believers.
What verse says in plain language that eternal life can be removed, revoked, etc.
Amazing! I asked you for evidence of your view and your response is a lie.
My first statement is proved from John 5:24 and 10:28, which you seem unable to read correctly, even though it is as plain as can be.
Your lie is that I haven't provided verses that say what I say.
Again, you aren't reading correctly. Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 says that condemnation is for those "who have not believed".
Your challenge is to prove that the phrase "have not believed" doesn't mean "have never believed".
Well, you certainly can't read Scripture very well.
I'm not interested in false doctrine.
I am fully able to read plain language of Scripture, which refutes your unbiblical ideas.
Believers are recipients of eternal life, which is WHEN they believe and become believers.
What verse says in plain language that eternal life can be removed, revoked, etc.
Amazing! I asked you for evidence of your view and your response is a lie.
My first statement is proved from John 5:24 and 10:28, which you seem unable to read correctly, even though it is as plain as can be.
Your lie is that I haven't provided verses that say what I say.
Again, you aren't reading correctly. Both John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 says that condemnation is for those "who have not believed".
Your challenge is to prove that the phrase "have not believed" doesn't mean "have never believed".
Well, you certainly can't read Scripture very well.
I'm not interested in false doctrine.
I am fully able to read plain language of Scripture, which refutes your unbiblical ideas.