Torture

[Scotth1960]

TORTURE IS WRONG and goes Against GOD's Will and HIS right to punish.

if the millions of "innocent" are killed then they will be in Heaven with God.

we are kind to people who preach spiritual death to people, what is the difference to a Muslim Terrorist?

they kill the body, the other (if believed by the hearer) kills the soul and leads people to Hell.

Human fleshly bodies do not matter only eternal souls and dedication to God.

torture is never justified. but neither is Sin but people try and justify both.

Do you fear GOD or do you Fear Men?

Lord what has the world come to?

Luke 12:4-5
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 “And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Do you fear God or do you value terrorists lives more than the lives of innocent people?
If you forbid torturing a terrorist who is intent on exploding a nuclear device, you are then endorsing the deaths of potentially millions of innocent people in a nuclear incident, because you refused to torture a terrorist who was planning an act of nuclear terror, because you view it as an absolute wrong to ever torture everybody. You thereby sanction, permit, and endorse the deaths of millions of innocent victims of nuclear terror.
If all that is standing between us and nuclear terrorism, is torture, then, something that is unforgivable? What is unforgivable is allowing terrorists to get away with nuclear blackmail.
In any case, it could be forgiven if they ever did that, but forgiveness is not the issue.
The holocaust of World War II begs of the world: never again! Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Never again! We should be lovers of peace, but peace comes at a price. Torture is not too high a price to pay to prevent Muslim terrorists from exploding a nuclear weapon.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Do you fear God or do you value terrorists lives more than the lives of innocent people?
If you forbid torturing a terrorist who is intent on exploding a nuclear device, you are then endorsing the deaths of potentially millions of innocent people in a nuclear incident, because you refused to torture a terrorist who was planning an act of nuclear terror, because you view it as an absolute wrong to ever torture everybody. You thereby sanction, permit, and endorse the deaths of millions of innocent victims of nuclear terror.
If all that is standing between us and nuclear terrorism, is torture, then, something that is unforgivable? What is unforgivable is allowing terrorists to get away with nuclear blackmail.
In any case, it could be forgiven if they ever did that, but forgiveness is not the issue.
The holocaust of World War II begs of the world: never again! Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Never again! We should be lovers of peace, but peace comes at a price. Torture is not too high a price to pay to prevent Muslim terrorists from exploding a nuclear weapon.

Hey Scott, where does the bible order us to torture people? Maybe this is one of them ther' oral traishuns.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Yeah i mean this isnt just a eys or no question. Dont torture just the average but in like scott and my examples...heck yeah torture them. Sometimes the ends do justify the means.

Does scripture say that the ends justifies the means?

 

[zone]

Do you fear God or do you value terrorists lives more than the lives of innocent people?
If you forbid torturing a terrorist who is intent on exploding a nuclear device, you are then endorsing the deaths of potentially millions of innocent people in a nuclear incident, because you refused to torture a terrorist who was planning an act of nuclear terror, because you view it as an absolute wrong to ever torture everybody. You thereby sanction, permit, and endorse the deaths of millions of innocent victims of nuclear terror.
If all that is standing between us and nuclear terrorism, is torture, then, something that is unforgivable? What is unforgivable is allowing terrorists to get away with nuclear blackmail.
In any case, it could be forgiven if they ever did that, but forgiveness is not the issue.
The holocaust of World War II begs of the world: never again! Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Never again! We should be lovers of peace, but peace comes at a price. Torture is not too high a price to pay to prevent Muslim terrorists from exploding a nuclear weapon.

just listen to that propaganda.

 

[Scotth1960]

no they were not.
your own government did 9-11 so they could clamp you in irons with your permission through THE PATRIOT ACT.
wake up.

and look how you are giving your approval to torture...right on schedule.
didn't you read 1984 in school or had that already gone down the memory hole?

You are completely utterly and totally wrong. Muslims did 9/11. Islam as it was practiced by Muhammad, the founder of the Islamic faith, was an act of jihad, of war in the name of Allah.
Do not be afraid to say it. "You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free." Jesus Christ is the Truth. Jesus wants us to be honest. He promised Christians would be hated (John 15). Muslim terrorists hate all non-Muslims. Wake up! But for the grace of God, America could be atttacked again. Terrorists could strike anywhere. They could strike in Canada too. Or in England. Russia. Wherever non-Muslims live.
They will also kill other Muslims. There's a war/family feud between Shi'a and Sunni Islam.
And bringing up 1984 is a ruse. This is a work of fiction, not the Gospel.
Muslims did 9/11.
That is the truth.
Remember what Jack Nicholson said in "A Few Good Men."
But "you can't handle the truth".
Why should Americans leave Muslims who do terror off the hook?
Yes, most Muslims are not terrorists.
But the people who did 9/11 were acting in the name of Allah and of Islam, not in the name of Jesus Christ and Christianity.
It is you that needs to wake up. You're fantasizing about a non-existent allegedly evil G.W. Bush administration. Bush was a good president.
The US Government did not do 9/11. 19 Muslim men did 9/11/01.

 

[Scotth1960]

no they were not.
your own government did 9-11 so they could clamp you in irons with your permission through THE PATRIOT ACT.
wake up.

and look how you are giving your approval to torture...right on schedule.
didn't you read 1984 in school or had that already gone down the memory hole?

If what you are saying is true, then the U.S. government is from satan. And that would not be understating it. It cannot be denied by anyone who knows and loves the truth, that 19 Muslim men acting in the name of Allah and of Islam flew the planes into the World Trade Center Towers in New York City on September 11, 2011 AD. To say otherwise is a lie of the devil, satan.
I guess some Canadians hate America. I don't know why.
I guess some Canadians defend what the Muslim terrorists did on 9/11.
What planet some people are living on, I don't know.
The news told us who did this: Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden were backing these 19 Muslim men, and one of the chief men was a man named Muhammad Ata.
Not the CIA or the US Government.
There is no logical reason why the US Government would attack its own American citizens,
unless you believe the American Government is the Antichrist.
God bless you, zone, But you're way out of line!
See:
9/11 conspiracy theories
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

God bless America and God bless Canada. God save America and Canada from Muslim terrorists. Amen. In the USA Scott Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

Hey Scott, where does the bible order us to torture people? Maybe this is one of them ther' oral traishuns.

Hey jimmydiggs, Where does the Bible tell us to allow Muslims terrorists to get away with murder?
Maybe that's one of your "If you're a Christian, watch this YouTube video" traditions!
God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

So the ends justifies the means?


Also, which matters most, our moral qualms, or Gods?

"Duties to the State "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good,. But if you do evil, be afraid: for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for consciences sake."
Romans 13:1-5 NKJV OSB New King James Version, Orthodox Study Bible, page 1544, q.v.

God bless you.

So where are you from the USA, or Somalia?

Take care.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Do you fear God or do you value terrorists lives more than the lives of innocent people?
If you forbid torturing a terrorist who is intent on exploding a nuclear device, you are then endorsing the deaths of potentially millions of innocent people in a nuclear incident, because you refused to torture a terrorist who was planning an act of nuclear terror, because you view it as an absolute wrong to ever torture everybody. You thereby sanction, permit, and endorse the deaths of millions of innocent victims of nuclear terror.
If all that is standing between us and nuclear terrorism, is torture, then, something that is unforgivable? What is unforgivable is allowing terrorists to get away with nuclear blackmail.
In any case, it could be forgiven if they ever did that, but forgiveness is not the issue.
The holocaust of World War II begs of the world: never again! Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Never again! We should be lovers of peace, but peace comes at a price. Torture is not too high a price to pay to prevent Muslim terrorists from exploding a nuclear weapon.

I think you are forgeting that we nuked Japan! If anyone in the world was tortured for nukes it would be people of the U.S.A! You should reconsider your Christian values. If they could other countries might torture Americans. How would you fill to be an American Solider if the World allowed torture for people. I believe we need forgiveness for bombing those people to death. God forgive us in our self-righteousness when we forget that we killed inoccient people by the thousands! We could loss America to Japan before God would allow us to nuke all those innoccent people! I would be speaking Japanese before I would believe that God wants Christians to torture other people or nuke innoccient people.

 

[Abiding]

If what you are saying is true, then the U.S. government is from satan. And that would not be understating it. It cannot be denied by anyone who knows and loves the truth, that 19 Muslim men acting in the name of Allah and of Islam flew the planes into the World Trade Center Towers in New York City on September 11, 2011 AD. To say otherwise is a lie of the devil, satan.
I guess some Canadians hate America. I don't know why.
I guess some Canadians defend what the Muslim terrorists did on 9/11.
What planet some people are living on, I don't know.
The news told us who did this: Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden were backing these 19 Muslim men, and one of the chief men was a man named Muhammad Ata.
Not the CIA or the US Government.
There is no logical reason why the US Government would attack its own American citizens,
unless you believe the American Government is the Antichrist.
God bless you, zone, But you're way out of line!
See:
9/11 conspiracy theories
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

God bless America and God bless Canada. God save America and Canada from Muslim terrorists. Amen. In the USA Scott Harrington






Nope not Islamic terrists but the massad. Bin Ladin is CIA. Probably enjoying himself today somewhere.
Did you think this nations government was upright? You only get to pick from 2 choices in this life. This nation has
been taking orders for a long time. The last one who said no to them was JFK.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Hey jimmydiggs, Where does the Bible tell us to allow Muslims terrorists to get away with murder?

I asked first


I'm not sure what the bible says on this subject. I don't think it commands us to punish, but maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe that's one of your "If you're a Christian, watch this YouTube video" traditions!
God bless you. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

What does this have to do with anything of the subject at hand?

 

[Abiding]

Dont believe everything you hear....Jesus taught us that!

 

[zone]

You are completely utterly and totally wrong. Muslims did 9/11. Islam as it was practiced by Muhammad, the founder of the Islamic faith, was an act of jihad, of war in the name of Allah.
Do not be afraid to say it. "You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free." Jesus Christ is the Truth. Jesus wants us to be honest. He promised Christians would be hated (John 15). Muslim terrorists hate all non-Muslims. Wake up! But for the grace of God, America could be atttacked again. Terrorists could strike anywhere. They could strike in Canada too. Or in England. Russia. Wherever non-Muslims live.
They will also kill other Muslims. There's a war/family feud between Shi'a and Sunni Islam.
And bringing up 1984 is a ruse. This is a work of fiction, not the Gospel.
Muslims did 9/11.
That is the truth.
Remember what Jack Nicholson said in "A Few Good Men."
But "you can't handle the truth".
Why should Americans leave Muslims who do terror off the hook?
Yes, most Muslims are not terrorists.
But the people who did 9/11 were acting in the name of Allah and of Islam, not in the name of Jesus Christ and Christianity.
It is you that needs to wake up. You're fantasizing about a non-existent allegedly evil G.W. Bush administration. Bush was a good president.
The US Government did not do 9/11. 19 Muslim men did 9/11/01.

complete and utter rubbish scottman.

 

[zone]

Nope not Islamic terrists but the massad. Bin Ladin is CIA. Probably enjoying himself today somewhere.
Did you think this nations government was upright? You only get to pick from 2 choices in this life. This nation has
been taking orders for a long time. The last one who said no to them was JFK.

scotty's giving us the party line.

 

[jimmydiggs]

"Duties to the State "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good,. But if you do evil, be afraid: for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for consciences sake."
Romans 13:1-5 NKJV OSB New King James Version, Orthodox Study Bible, page 1544, q.v.

God bless you.

I know full well the implicatons of Romans 13. I often refert to it as the Romans 13 Clause, however, we must not forget Acts 5:29

27 The apostles were brought in and made to appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 “We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name,” he said. “Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man’s blood.” 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings! 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead—whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

The Sanhedrin were the authorites. So they were working in resistance to the Sanhedrin(authorities). So what we see here, is that we are to follow human laws, so long as they do not conflict with divine imperative. (such as evangelizing Saudis)

So where are you from the USA, or Somalia?

Born in Kansas, lived there for awhile, moved to Nebraska for awhile, and now I reside in Missouri east of KC. Human law wise, I am a citizen of the USA. I just don't like having my flag as a human nations. For awhile I chose countries whose flags showed up as a red X because the file didn't work. However, the forum guru's fixed that. I would prefer to have the below flag as my "nationality" settings wise. After finding they fixed all the flags, I settled with Somalia.

Were you hoping I was a muslim?


EDIT:
Hey Scott, is the Fathers Kingdom, earthly, or heavenly?

Take care.

In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington

You too.

 

[Abiding]

scotty's giving us the party line.

I can remember thinking i was informed because I watched the news.
I see now every, I mean every network all meet down at the council on foreign
relations, or the Lodge, or the Grove. or the....

 

[zone]

I can remember thinking i was informed because I watched the news.
I see now every, I mean every network all meet down at the council on foreign
relations, or the Lodge, or the Grove. or the....

well, can't really blame any regular folks for not knowing.
the bad guys have been at this a long time.
they know how to do this quite well.

they gotta step it up tho cuz peeps are catching on.

 

[Abiding]

their way ahead...ive noticed they have started their own propaganda against themselves.
Three ive seen are brilliant men, deeply in the occult/new age, and are really on their side.
They throw a few of their own under the bus to guide off from the truth.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Hmmm. Sometimes I would say it is necessary, but the type of torture ultimately decides if it's justified or not. Causing temporary discomfort by waterboarding or some other method may be morally permissible in certain situations, but things like the medieval rack wouldn't.

This seems in stark contradiction with what the United States Council of Catholic Bishops seems to say based on a document I found.

Today, “the Church's position on interrogational torture is absolute: It may never again be used,” Jesuit Father John Perry wrote in a February 2006 article published by Catholic News Service. While the Catechism of the Catholic Church makes it clear that torture is a grave sin which violates the Fifth Commandment (No. 2297), Father Perry noted that “sadly, our current position does not reflect a long, robust tradition against torture.” He said that “for centuries the Inquisition used torture in the course of interrogations when judicial inconsistencies existed,” and some 17th century writers on moral issues “devoted many pages in their treatises on torture to discussion of procedural questions.”
http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/TortureIsAMoralIssueCatholicStudyGuide.pdf <--- click

So who is wrong?

 

[Scotth1960]

I think you are forgeting that we nuked Japan! If anyone in the world was tortured for nukes it would be people of the U.S.A! You should reconsider your Christian values. If they could other countries might torture Americans. How would you fill to be an American Solider if the World allowed torture for people. I believe we need forgiveness for bombing those people to death. God forgive us in our self-righteousness when we forget that we killed inoccient people by the thousands! We could loss America to Japan before God would allow us to nuke all those innoccent people! I would be speaking Japanese before I would believe that God wants Christians to torture other people or nuke innoccient people.

So, are you saying, with "Rev." Jeremiah Wright, "God damn America!"?
America is not the Kingdom of God, and it is not the Church that Jesus Christ founded.
That does not mean it is not blessed and anointed of God. Every nation that has at least a remnant of true Christians is blessed and anointed of God. We have so many Christians here with competing traditions all living in peace with each other. That doesn't happen in many other places. In Israel it's even considered illegal by the Jewish authorities to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
PS: By the way, not all the people we nuked in Japan were innocent. Some were fighting against the United States. Hiroshima and Nagasaki would never have happened if Japan hadn't attacked the US at Pearl Harbor. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were tragedies, but who can judge what we did but God? We saved millions of Japanese lives which would have been lost if we had used conventional weapons. The nukes brought the war to a just and fair end. Failing to use them would have meant we would have killed more innocent people, and that would have been worse than what we actually did. Relatively few people died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Hitler and Stalin killed many more innocent people than the USA did in Japan.