GOD'S ULTIMATE PURPOSE FOR BELIEVERS

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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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No, I said, to call yourself (or someone else) a forgiven sinner is an insult to God's grace
Yes well until we reach perfection in heaven, we are forgiven sinners here on earth…

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
Apr 15, 2022
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Yes well until we reach perfection in heaven, we are forgiven sinners here on earth…

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
You will amount little in God's kingdom unless you renew your mind and think of yourself as an adopted son of God, as an heir of the kingdom, and as an ambassador of Christ. Everything less is nothing but mud in the street.

Colossians 3:1–3 (LSB) "Therefore, if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
3 For you died and your life has been hidden with Christ in God."
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE said:

"You will amount little in God's kingdom unless you renew your mind and think of yourself as an adopted son of God, as an heir of the kingdom, and as an ambassador of Christ. Everything less is nothing but mud in the street."

 
Apr 15, 2022
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MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE said:

"You will amount little in God's kingdom unless you renew your mind and think of yourself as an adopted son of God, as an heir of the kingdom, and as an ambassador of Christ. Everything less is nothing but mud in the street."

I wouldn't laugh if I were you...

John 3:36 (LSB) “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE said:

"I wouldn't laugh if I were you..."

 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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You will amount little in God's kingdom unless you renew your mind and think of yourself as an adopted son of God, as an heir of the kingdom, and as an ambassador of Christ. Everything less is nothing but mud in the street.
Thanks but it is Jesus who renews my mind and has adopted me into His kingdom yet until I am in heaven, I remain a forgiven sinner in this body of mud (vessel of clay).
 
Oct 16, 2020
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Austalia
I am willing and obedient servant to my Lord and Master. I am ransomed slave of sin and have become a slave of righteousness. I am the beloved of God. I am a child of God, a co-heir and brother with Christ, I am a royal prince with God the Father as my King.
 
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Thanks but it is Jesus who renews my mind and has adopted me into His kingdom yet until I am in heaven, I remain a forgiven sinner in this body of mud (vessel of clay).
Thanks but it is Jesus who renews my mind and has adopted me into His kingdom yet until I am in heaven, I remain a forgiven sinner in this body of mud (vessel of clay).
You renew your own mind because it is your responsibility; you are not a robot my friend. Read Romans 12:1-2.

🤫
 
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People keep saying they are a 'forgiven sinner' or a 'sinner saved by grace'. When the Bible uses the word sinner it is not the english definition of sinner, but the Jewish definition.

If we see ourselves as just sinners saved by grace, then we’ll act like sinners saved by grace and expect very little from our transformation as a new creation in Christ. However, if we see ourselves as saints, then we’ll be more likely to see ourselves as set apart for the things of God.

If we continue to see ourselves as just sinners saved by grace, we’ll approach the Father expecting judgement and begging for crumbs, rather than as grateful grace-filled saints expecting promises fulfilled.

For all of us who know Jesus as Lord, we are not defined by our sin, but by our Savior; not by our behavior but our beliefs.

I am not saying that once we become a Christian we no longer sin. John wrote, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8 ESV). I am saying that our sin no longer defines who we are.

We were sinners, who were saved by grace. Now we are saints who will continue to struggle with sin until we leave this earth.

I know “I am a sinner saved by grace” sounds humble, but that’s not who God says you are. The truth is: You are a holy, redeemed, chosen, dearly loved child of God who is equipped by the Father, empowered by the Holy Spirit, and enveloped in Jesus Christ! And that’s through grace all around. Speak it. Believe it. Live it

2 Corinthians 5:17 says that when we are saved we are a new creation, so how cna you still be a sinner. You have been made righteous by Christ's sacrifice. If you fall, is that righteousness tainted, no you haven't fallen short from the glory of God because since you played no part in receiving that righteousness, you can not damage or weaken it. Sin creates separation, but that is when the Holy Spirit convicts us to confess our sin and ask for forgiveness. As believers we have no desire to serve sin, so how can you call yourself sinner if God no longer sees you that way.

Why is this idea of “just sinners saved by grace” wrong? Apart from having absolutely no biblical basis, it completely dismisses the completed work of Jesus Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21) Did Jesus do what He came to do? Yes! Still some maintain that our becoming righteous is yet future, which is not what the Bible teaches.

In addition to this, the overwhelming evidence in the Bible teaches that we are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the cornerstone. (Ephesians 2:19-20) In most of Paul’s letters to us, he addresses them to the “saints” who lived in Corinth, Rome, Ephesus, Philippi, and Colossae. The Greek word for saint is “hagios” which means “called out” or “holy ones.” It is the result of your new birth experience, not your behavior.

In like manner, Paul uses the word “sinner” in Romans as the label of one born only in Adam in their pre-salvation state. Believers in Jesus Christ are NEVER referred to in the New Testament as “sinners”, especially not as “sinners saved by grace.” Why is this so important? After all is it not just semantics or preferences? It is not semantics; it’s Bible based Identity.

In Proverbs 18:21 we read, Death and Life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruit. Later in Proverbs 23:7 we read, For as he thinks within himself, so is he. The point here is: The way you view yourself will control the way you behave and the way you see God. Saint Augustine says, “You cannot live correctly if your view of God is incorrect.” If God says you are a saint, and you say otherwise, you will never enjoy your walk with the Lord because you will not be “walking with the Lord in a manner worthy of your calling” as saints.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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You renew your own mind because it is your responsibility; you are not a robot my friend. Read Romans 12:1-2.

🤫
Sorry, but Romans 12:2 says nothing about 'us' renewing our own mind...

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

As a matter of fact the command 'but be ye transformed' is in the passive indicating another working this out in our lives. e.g.
(Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


p.s. I still remain a forgiven sinner.
 
Apr 15, 2022
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Sorry, but Romans 12:2 says nothing about 'us' renewing our own mind...

(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

As a matter of fact the command 'but be ye transformed' is in the passive indicating another working this out in our lives. e.g.
(Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


p.s. I still remain a forgiven sinner.
Romans 12:1-2 (LSB) 1 Therefore I exhort you, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice--living, holy, and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may approve what the will of God is, that which is good and pleasing and perfect."


Paul explicitly says to be transformed by the renewing of the minds of his readers. That applies to us, to me, and to you. If you refuse to apply that and let the Spirit of God teach you will regret, it later.

1 Peter 1:14-16 (LSB) 14 As obedient children, not being conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your conduct;
16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”


If you are not convinced, let's stop the charade and go on pretending you "are doing your best." You are not because Christ is not your life

LSB Col. 3:4 "When Christ, who is our life, is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory."

Make it personal: If Christ is your life, you will. not be manifested with Him in glory. I know I will, but in your case, only you can answer that question.

Take care.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Romans 12:1-2 (LSB) 1 Therefore I exhort you, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a sacrifice--living, holy, and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may approve what the will of God is, that which is good and pleasing and perfect."


Paul explicitly says to be transformed by the renewing of the minds of his readers. That applies to us, to me, and to you. If you refuse to apply that and let the Spirit of God teach you will regret, it later.

1 Peter 1:14-16 (LSB) 14 As obedient children, not being conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your conduct;
16 because it is written, “YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY.”


If you are not convinced, let's stop the charade and go on pretending you "are doing your best." You are not because Christ is not your life

LSB Col. 3:4 "When Christ, who is our life, is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory."

Make it personal: If Christ is your life, you will. not be manifested with Him in glory. I know I will, but in your case, only you can answer that question.

Take care.
I don't think his point was we don't need our minds renewed, but the distinction is who does the renewing. You seem to be saying it is by our own effort. His point was that it is done by God in us.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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I don't think his point was we don't need our minds renewed, but the distinction is who does the renewing. You seem to be saying it is by our own effort. His point was that it is done by God in us.
God does work in us to will and to do His pleasure, but it's up to us to renew our minds.
 
Oct 16, 2020
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Austalia
Romans 12:2 is not either or when it comes to who is doing the renewing, it is a joint effort, we choose willing to read the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to inspire, illuminate and reveal the deeper meaning of the Word of God to us and through that understanding we are given and applying those truths we learn to our life, we are transformed. We cannot renew our own mind without the help of God and God won't renew our minds without us putting in the effort. We can make small changes in our lives, but in order to be transformed we must unlearn and overwrite those natural desires and instincts that are already in our carnal nature. Essentially, just as you can learn bad habits, we can also learn good habits with God's help. Whether good or bad, a single thought brings forth an action. Continuing that action creates a habit, as we practice those habits in our lives we create a lifestyle and that lifestyle leads to a destiny. In order to make good habits, we need God to shine a light on all the dark places in our hearts so we know what needs to change and reveal truth and revelations from His Word that can change the way we see the world. Our destiny will change as our thoughts are changed and we focus on whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable. (Philippians 4:8) and when we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5)
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Romans 12:2 is not either or when it comes to who is doing the renewing, it is a joint effort, we choose willing to read the scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to inspire, illuminate and reveal the deeper meaning of the Word of God to us and through that understanding we are given and applying those truths we learn to our life, we are transformed. We cannot renew our own mind without the help of God and God won't renew our minds without us putting in the effort. We can make small changes in our lives, but in order to be transformed we must unlearn and overwrite those natural desires and instincts that are already in our carnal nature. Essentially, just as you can learn bad habits, we can also learn good habits with God's help. Whether good or bad, a single thought brings forth an action. Continuing that action creates a habit, as we practice those habits in our lives we create a lifestyle and that lifestyle leads to a destiny. In order to make good habits, we need God to shine a light on all the dark places in our hearts so we know what needs to change and reveal truth and revelations from His Word that can change the way we see the world. Our destiny will change as our thoughts are changed and we focus on whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely, and admirable. (Philippians 4:8) and when we demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5)
I wasn't arguing for either position. I was trying to add clarity.
 
Oct 16, 2020
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Austalia
I wasn't arguing for either position. I was trying to add clarity.
I understand that, I removed your quote from my comment, I wasn't insinuating you were taking a side, I was just trying to do the same thing as you, but I accidentally included a quote of your post
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I understand that, I removed your quote from my comment, I wasn't insinuating you were taking a side, I was just trying to do the same thing as you, but I accidentally included a quote of your post
I thought your explanation was very good.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Paul explicitly says to be transformed by the renewing of the minds of his readers. That applies to us, to me, and to you. If you refuse to apply that and let the Spirit of God teach you will regret, it later.
I believe I gave you
(Php 2:13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

You are not because Christ is not your life
How would you know? Because I choose to walk by His promises rather than self-effort?