Peter NOT the 1st pope and the keys of the kingdom

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,197
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Chapter 4
And as they stood together around the gate, those who seemed to be strong carried them, and they stooped down under the corners of the stone; and the others stooped down under the sides of the stones. And in this way they carried all the stones. And they carried them through the gate as they were commanded, and gave them to the men for the tower; and they took the stones and proceeded with the building. Now the tower was built upon the great rock, and above the gate. Those ten stones were prepared as the foundation for the building of the tower. And the rock and gate were the support of the whole of the tower. And after the ten stones other twenty [five] came up out of the pit, and these were fitted into the building of the tower, being carried by the virgins as before. And after these ascended thirty-five. And these in like manner were fitted into the tower. And after these other forty stones came up; and all these were cast into the building of the tower, [and there were four rows in the foundation of the tower, ] and they ceased ascending from the pit. And the builders also ceased for a little. And again the six men commanded the multitude of the crowd to bear stones from the mountains for the building of the tower. They were accordingly brought from all the mountains of various colors, and being hewn by the men were given to the virgins; and the virgins carried them through the gate, and gave them for the building of the tower. And when the stones of various colors were placed in the building, they all became white alike, and lost their different colors. And certain stones were given by the men for the building, and these did not become shining; but as they were placed, such also were they found to remain: for they were not given by the virgins, nor carried through the gate. These stones, therefore, were not in keeping with the others in the building of the tower. And the six men, seeing these unsuitable stones in the building, commanded them to be taken away, and to be carried away down to their own place whence they had been taken; [and being removed one by one, they were laid aside; and] they say to the men who brought the stones, Do not bring any stones at all for the building, but lay them down beside the tower, that the virgins may carry them through the gate, and may give them for the building. For unless, they said, they be carried through the gate by the hands of the virgins, they cannot change their colors: do not toil, therefore, they said, to no purpose.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,197
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
13[90]:5 "Listen," saith he. "The name of the Son of God is great and incomprehensible, and sustaineth the whole world. If then all creation is sustained by the Son [of God], what thinkest thou of those that are called by Him, and bear the name of the Son of God, and walk according to His commandments?

13[90]:6 Seest thou then what manner of men He sustaineth? Even those that bear His name with their whole heart. He Himself then is become their foundation, and He sustaineth them gladly, because they are not ashamed to bear His name."

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/shepherd-lightfoot.html
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
Peter was not the first Pope according to whom? The Bishop of Rome. If you look at it historically, the same Church Fathers who tell us who wrote the Gospels also tell us that the Apostle Peter was the First Bishop of Rome. And very credible Church Historians, of every denomination, know that the first 4 or 10 list of Bishops of Rome included St. Peter the Apostle.

The succession list of bishops in the apostolic see of Rome of the first two centuries as provided by Philip Schaff (volume 2, History of the Christian Church, page 166) is --
  • St. Peter (d. 64 or 67)
  • St. Linus (67-76)
  • St. Anacletus (76-88)
  • St. Clement I (88-97) ...
  • "It must in justice be admitted, however, that the list of Roman bishops has by far the preminence in age, completeness, integrity of succession, consistency of doctrine and policy, above every similar catalogue, not excepting those of Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Constantinople...." (Schaff, page 166)
See also Wikipedia itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century These are simple historical facts.

God Bless.

God Bless.
Paul tells us Peter was not in Rome or the bishop of Rome...

Rom 15:20 And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation,
21 but as it is written:
“To whom He was not announced, they shall see;
And those who have not heard shall understand.”

32 that I may come to you with joy by the will of God, and may be refreshed together with you

Paul was coming to Rome but he plainly says that he would NOT build on another man’s foundation. He also plainly states Christ had not been announced in Rome.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,197
1,577
113
68
Brighton, MI
Paul tells us Peter was not in Rome or the bishop of Rome...

Rom 15:20 And so I have made it my aim to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build on another man’s foundation,
21 but as it is written:
“To whom He was not announced, they shall see;
And those who have not heard shall understand.”

32 that I may come to you with joy by the will of God, and may be refreshed together with you

Paul was coming to Rome but he plainly says that he would NOT build on another man’s foundation. He also plainly states Christ had not been announced in Rome.
Two or more Christians can lay down a foundation, thus the text does not prove Peter was not in Rome at the time.