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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#161
Jul 8, 2018
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#161
VARob said:
People do not have the Holy Spirit within them before they decide to believe the gospel. When a person hears the gospel and decides to believe it THEN they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13
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Verse 13 does not say that they received the Holy Spirit after they believed. It says that they were confirmed (sealed) with the Holy Spirit
 
V

VARob

Banned
#162
Dec 21, 2020
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#162
ForestGreenCook said:
Verse 13 does not say that they received the Holy Spirit after they believed. It says that they were confirmed (sealed) with the Holy Spirit
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lol...

You're going to interpret it according to your theology.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How do you spin that one?
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#163
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#163
VARob said:
People do not have the Holy Spirit within them before they decide to believe the gospel. When a person hears the gospel and decides to believe it THEN they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13).


Christ died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Anyone has the capacity and/or ability to believe the gospel.
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The world in 1 John 2:2 is the same world as in John 3:16, which is the world of believers only, and is not the whole world of mankind, because John 14:17 says that the world cannot receive the spirit of truth.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#164
Jul 8, 2018
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#164
VARob said:
lol...

You're going to interpret it according to your theology.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How do you spin that one?
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Tell me how you spin John 6:39, regarding those that his Father gave him, and I will tell you how I interpret Acts 2:38.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#165
Dec 21, 2020
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#165
ForestGreenCook said:
The world in 1 John 2:2 is the same world as in John 3:16, which is the world of believers only, and is not the whole world of mankind,
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You're applying the Calvinist interpretation once again.

because John 14:17 says that the world cannot receive the spirit of truth.
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People of the world, worldly people. Worldly people can choose to believe the gospel, and when they do, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#167
May 3, 2018
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#167
VARob said:
The Father gives to Jesus those who choose to believe the gospel.
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John 6:40
For it is my Father's will that everyone who sees the Son and believes may have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Not everyone has seen the son.If you like to be careful with words.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#168
Dec 21, 2020
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#168
soberxp said:
John 6:40
For it is my Father's will that everyone who sees the Son and believes may have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

Not everyone has seen the son.If you like to be careful with words.
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"Seeing the Son" does not mean physically seeing him.

People can see Jesus in the words we speak to them. It's why we witness, so people can learn about Him and come to believe on Him so they can be saved.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#169
May 3, 2018
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#169
VARob said:
"Seeing the Son" does not mean physically seeing him.

People can see Jesus in the words we speak to them. It's why we witness, so people can learn about Him and come to believe on Him so they can be saved.
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Will people believe your lies? Would it help if you took my word as a lie and witnessed it? Let the people see Jesus for their own eyes.

It's like literally as what you think so John 3:16

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
 
V

VARob

Banned
#170
Dec 21, 2020
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#170
soberxp said:
Will people believe your lies?
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What lies? Be specific.

Would it help if you took my word as a lie and witnessed it? Let the people see Jesus for their own eyes.

It's like literally as what you think so John 3:16
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???

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
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Great scripture. Probably the most famous verse in the Bible. People who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will have everlasting life. Those who don't will perish.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#171
Mar 17, 2022
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#171
ForestGreenCook said:
God rejected the nation of Israel and favored the Gentiles. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, who is representative of God's elect from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation
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I am well aware that God cancelled the covenant, He made with them at Mt Sinai.

He left to them a desolate house, they were no longer the chosen nation.

So many interpretations of the scripture.
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#172
Mar 17, 2022
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#172
Magenta said:
The "I" in Calvin's T.U.L.I.P. stands for irresistible grace ;)
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Me know that.

Do you see the difference between the Jew and the Gentile in the first century?

Paul said the Jew comes first then the Gentile.

Jesus was sent to the Jews and not to the Gentiles.

Jesus was born in the house of David.

May I ask you a question?

How do you read (interpret) the verse below.

Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated".
 
I

Inquisitor

Well-known member
#173
Mar 17, 2022
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#173
ForestGreenCook said:
God rejected the nation of Israel and favored the Gentiles. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, who is representative of God's elect from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation
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But why did God switch from the Jew to the Gentile?
 
I

Inquisitor

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#174
Mar 17, 2022
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#174
Jocund said:
Here's my understanding so far:

OT saints were part of many nations under many names. Chosen people were never citizens of a "chosen nation" until Christ and the nation in Christ. The chosen people of the OT were never citizens of a chosen nation.

There are no passages in the Christian Bible that talk about a chosen "nation of Israel", only a chosen people from across many nations, and it is explicitly stated that not all people of Israel were chosen. The Bible even has a passage in Exodus that alludes to the fact that Israel never became a chosen nation because they failed to be perfect under the Law.

The concept that the "nation of Israel is chosen" is not consistent with Christian scripture and is in fact from Talmudic Judaism. If you were a Talmudic Jew, that's just part of your faith. But as a Christian, it is contrary to scripture to accept the premise that a Christless Israel would have been a chosen nation, even if it contained a percentage of the population that were chosen people.
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Sorry, the Old Testament concerns the nation of Israel, the land, the covenants. Gentiles are largely missing in nearly all the books of the Old Testament. The law itself banned Gentiles from the temple. A Jewish women could not marry a Gentile. Even Peter did not associate with Gentiles. Peter was an apostle to the Jews.

The New Testament also concentrates on the Jews until the Gentiles were grafted in.
 
soberxp

soberxp

Senior Member
#175
May 3, 2018
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#175
Inquisitor said:
Sorry, the Old Testament concerns the nation of Israel, the land, the covenants. Gentiles are largely missing in nearly all the books of the Old Testament. The law itself banned Gentiles from the temple. A Jewish women could not marry a Gentile. Even Peter did not associate with Gentiles. Peter was an apostle to the Jews.

The New Testament also concentrates on the Jews until the Gentiles were grafted in.
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So how do you understand the wisdom that Solomon received from God, and that Solomon did marry a lot of Gentiles women.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

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#176
Jul 8, 2018
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#176
VARob said:
You're applying the Calvinist interpretation once again.


People of the world, worldly people. Worldly people can choose to believe the gospel, and when they do, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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You do admit that there is a different world of people that cannot receive the Spirit of truth. You cannot make this verse mean that the people have a choice to not believe. If you try that you would have to ignore the word "cannot". Just like you ignore the same word in 1 Cor 2:14.
 
V

VARob

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#178
Dec 21, 2020
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#178
ForestGreenCook said:
You do admit that there is a different world of people that cannot receive the Spirit of truth.
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They can if they change their mind.

You cannot make this verse mean that the people have a choice to not believe. If you try that you would have to ignore the word "cannot".
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The reason they cannot is because they are worldly and steeped in unbelief. They could change. There are meek people out there.

Just like you ignore the same word in 1 Cor 2:14.
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People can understand spiritual things if they stop being so "natural," or soulish, which is what the word means.
 
I

Inquisitor

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#180
Mar 17, 2022
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#180
soberxp said:
So how do you understand the wisdom that Solomon received from God, and that Solomon did marry a lot of Gentiles women.
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What has Solomon's concubines got to do with Israel?
 
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