Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

What is written in Romans 4:25 does not change the fact that the verbs are in the present tense in Romans 4:5:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.

The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.

Please address the issue concerning the verb tense in Romans 4:5. They are all present tense, notwithstanding what is written in Romans 4:25.

You still deny the witness of the resurrection of Christ.

hahahahahahahaha your inability to address the issue does not equal me denying my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

You so silly!!!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

intentionally obtuse ...

Address the issue, brightfame52:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not [present tense], but believeth [present tense] on him that justifieth [present tense] the ungodly, his faith is counted [present tense] for righteousness.

The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.

If you can't address the issue, just say you can't address it.

Its been addressed many times, you reject it. You deny Rom 4:5 for it teaches that God justifies the ungodly.

I believe all in this forum believe God justifies the ungodly ... that is not the issue.

What is the issue is your claim that a person is "justified before he became a believer". That is what you claimed in Post 2648.

If (as you claim) a person is "justified before he became a believer", the verb tense in Romans 4:5 would be past tense. However, all the verbs are in the present tense, which means the person is justified at the time he/she believes ... not at some distant point in the past as you claim.

You have even gone so far as to claim that if one is "elect", he/she does "not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" (your Post 1804). What a lie from the pit.

The verbs are in the present tense which means that at the very moment the person believes, his/her faith is counted for righteousness ... at that very moment, God justifies the one who believes ... at that very moment the believer is no longer ungodly.

Your understanding is faulty because the verse says " Believeth on Him that Justifeth the ungodly" and the ungodly has the definite article, so its specifying that they are in a ungodly state, being justified.

if they are justified, they are no longer "ungodly" ... before believing, they were considered ungodly by God.

According to Rom 4:5, when the ungodly believe [present tense], the ungodly are justified [present tense]

Once they are justified, the ungodly are no longer ungodly. They are born again with Holy Spirit inside and because Holy Spirit resides in the believer, the believer is no longer considered by God to be ungodly.

Now that being the case, they werent regenerate or believers when Justified.

They weren't regenerate or believers before they were justified.

Once a person is born again (regenerate), he/she is justified.

You'll have to find another verse in Scripture to support your claim that "They are born justified" (Post 2107) and "they were part of His Body ... even before they were born period" (Post 2487).

Your claims that "They are born justified" and "they were part of His Body ... even before they were born period" are claims for which you have provided absolutely no Scriptural support because it has been proven that your reliance on Romans 4:5 fails to establish your claim.

brightfame52, do you really believe that if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave ... that the grave could hold Him???

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having losed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.

So once again, you deny the testification of Christs resurrection

another false accusation from the accuser of the brethren.

Again, brightfame52, answer the question:

Do you really believe if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave ... that the grave could hold Him???

Nothing has been ignored by me

you ignored what Gill had to say about the one who "exercises faith on God" when you quoted from his commentary.

You bolded your pertinent point (shown below in blue).

I bolded the black/red text. The last couple of lines which highlight the faith factor is what you ignore:

but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness​

Here St Paul leaves the special features of Abraham’s case, to enforce the principle of Justification by an extreme case. He contemplates a man so emphatically “without works” as to be an open sinner: now, this man is justified, is declared to be accepted as righteous, on the sole condition of faith in the Justifier.

This is error

nope ... truth of Scripture.

How many times does God have to tell you that mankind it justified by faith before you believe Him?

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

You have again botched your reply in Post 2778:

brightfame52 said:
we know that Christs resurrection is an evidence that those He died for have been Justified.
brightfame52, do you really believe that if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave ... that the grave could hold Him???

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hat raised up, having lossed the pains of death: becaue it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

the Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave if no one believed.

You included statements made by me with your statement.

You really need to learn to submit your posts properly so that you do not include statements made by others as if you had made the statement.
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[reneweddaybyday]

nope … factual statement.

Please note I did not call you a buffoon ... I asked you to stop "acting like a buffoon". There is a difference.

If you need me to explain the difference, please let me know and I will be happy to do so.

More insults.

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[reneweddaybyday]

you can claim you have "Already addressed these matters" all the livelong day. However, you make conflicting statements and when the discrepancy is pointed out to you, rather than seriously consider the issue, you sweep it under the carpet and claim "Already addressed these matters" and accuse others "you don’t listen".

Your claim in Post 910 that "its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state" is correct.

In post 2514, your response of "That's false" when I told you "Once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly" " is incorrect.

And I understand you have to claim that because your erroneous dogma states that a person is justified before he/she comes to faith in Christ.

I have addressed them, and you dont listen.

... like I said:

you can claim you have "Already addressed these matters" all the livelong day. However, you make conflicting statements and when the discrepancy is pointed out to you, rather than seriously consider the issue, you sweep it under the carpet and claim "Already addressed these matters" and accuse others "you don’t listen".

And I understand you have to claim that because your erroneous dogma states that a person is justified before he/she comes to faith in Christ.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Exactly, they hear first [by regeneration] then believe. Only the regenerate hear Spiritually and believe.

The words " [by regeneration] " do not appear in the text – they are added by you.

Doesnt have to appear in the text

hahahahahaha!!! you so funny!!!

When I pointed out to you that the sealing of the Holy Spirit spoken of in Eph 1:13 occurs at regeneration, you replied "thats your statement not scripture".

When I point out to you that you have added the words " [by regeneration] " to Acts 15:7 and Ephesians 1:13, your reply is " Doesnt have to appear in the text "



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[reneweddaybyday]

You have again botched your reply in Post 2783:

that's regeneration before you hear the Gospel.
Scripturally unsound dogma.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

No believe the gospel, no salvation ...

Romans 10:

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Hear ... then believe.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

Hear ... then believe ... then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise = regeneration.

You add to the truth of Scripture to your own detriment.

The first sentence is what you submitted. The rebuttal to your claim was submitted by me ... and there are additional botches in your post as well.

You really need to learn to submit your posts properly so that you do not include statements made by others.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Now that Christ died for us Vs 9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Christ dying #1 Justified us by His Blood

According to Rom 5:1 we have been justified by faith and Rom 5:9 being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath.

Then continuing to read Romans 5:10, reconciliation from God toward mankind having been effected by the death of His son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

I have already pointed out to you in the past, the word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is translated from the Greek word katallássō which means decisively change, as when two parties reconcile when coming ("changing") to the same position.

Reconciliation on the part of God to mankind took place before the foundation of the world.

Reconciliation on the part of man to God takes place at the time a person turns to God in faith ... at that point we are no longer enemies.

Those who reject God even as He reaches out to them remain enemies and are not reconciled to God ... not because God has not made provision for them, but because they reject that which God has provided for them to be reconciled to God.

False God had already imputed Righteousness to Abraham

That is not what is stated in Scripture:

Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

In order for your understanding to be correct, you have to rearrange the words to fit your stated belief. Just read Scripture as written by the Author of Scripture. If God had wanted the verse to read "And God counted Abraham righteous and Abraham believed", God would have written the verse in that order.

Quit manipulating Scripture in your vain attempt to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma.

I know what it says, Im telling you what it means

God does not need you to explain what He wrote in Scripture. God needs you to believe what He wrote without turning to your erroneous dogma to understand what He wrote.

Genesis 15:6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

In order for your understanding to be correct, you have to rearrange the words to fit your stated belief. Just read Scripture as written by the Author of Scripture. If God had wanted the verse to read "And God counted Abraham righteous and Abraham believed", God would have written the verse in that order.

Your problem is unbelief

Now you dont believe in the death of Christ !

You dont believe in the death of Christ !

That I do not agree with your erroneous dogma does not mean that "my problem is unbelief" or that I "don’t believe in the death of Christ !". That is just deflection on your part and an avoidance tactic because you are unable to refute the central point.

You really need to stop with the personal attacks, brightfame52.

Address the issues raised and stop your ad hominem fallacious attacks ... they do nothing to add to the discussion.
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[reneweddaybyday]

I've said it before and I will say it again, it is the OBJECT of faith Who justifies. God is the One Who justifies.

You say that, but you dont believe it

More vitriol from the mind/keyboard of brightfame52.

That I do not agree with your erroneous dogma does not mean that I "don’t believe" God is the One Who justifies. Your accusation is just deflection on your part and an avoidance tactic because you are unable to refute the central point.

You really need to stop with the personal attacks, brightfame52.

Address the issues raised and stop your ad hominem fallacious attacks ... they do nothing to add to the discussion.
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[reneweddaybyday]

His Justifying of them is prior to that ungodly one believes

it's simultaneous.

Simultaneous = occurring at the same time – mirriam-webster.com

they are born Justified before God

nope ... you have provided no Scriptural support for your erroneous statement. All you have provided is your rearrangement/manipulation of the text of Scripture in order to prop up your erroneous dogma.

Now I have explained this to you before !

And I have shown you from Scripture that you are rearranging and manipulating the text in order to support your erroneous dogma.

Quit manipulating the text. God wrote His Word the way He wrote it. Believe what God says and quit changing His Word to arrive at your stated belief. Change your stated belief to align with what is stated in His Word.
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[reneweddaybyday]

This forgiveness of sins comes before Faith

God having worked out His purpose in the Lord Jesus Christ in eternity past does not mean you do not have to believe what God has written in His Word.

Romans 3:24, which you ripped from its context, has been utilized by you to support a dogma never intended by the Author of Scripture.

Romans 3:

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


If you (or anyone else for that matter) do not believe what God promises in His Word, you will not receive the promise.

In other words, a person can hear the Word of God and reject what God has provided. In that case, the person does not receive ... not because God did not provide the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, but because the person rejected that which God has provided for all mankind (the world, the whole world).
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[brightfame52]

Justification by God is manifested by the Resurrection of Christ !

Faith in and of itself, even Spirit given Faith Gal 5:22 does not Justify one before God, simply because the Resurrection of Christ from the dead is a God given testimony/declaration that God has Justified all for whom Offences He Christ was delivered for, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

who was betrayed and crucified because of our sins, and was raised [from the dead] because of our justification [our acquittal—absolving us of all sin before God].AMP

Justification and Acquittal are the same, and the word Acquittal means:

the discharge or settlement of a debt, obligation, etc. This is also Forgiveness of sins, the word forgiveness for instance in Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Its the word aphesis and means:

a sending away, a letting go, a release, pardon, complete forgiveness.

áphesis (from 863 /aphíēmi, "send away, forgive" ) – properly, "something sent away"; i.e. remission ("forgiveness"), releasing someone from obligation or debt

And this forgiveness, Acquittal, Justification of them through Christ is declared by God Himself by raising Christ from the dead !

 

[brightfame52]

intentionally obtuse.

Thayer's includes 2 Corinthians 5:19 under definition #5:

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... 2 Corinthians 5:19​

.

So you deny that the world of 2 Cor 5:19 doesnt have sin imputed to it ?

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

In Acts 5:35, Gamaliel, who was a well respected pharisee, spoke to the council which had imprisoned Peter and the apostles:

Acts 5:35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

You want me to believe that the high priest and the council, the ones Peter addressed in Acts 5:30 as whom ye slew and hanged on a tree ... these guys are your so-called "elect"???


Acts 5:31 speaks of the nation of Israel ... the nation which God promised to Abraham and to Isaac and to Jacob. Here is the Word which God spoke to Jacob:

Genesis 35:

10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins

In John 11, we read about the high priest prophesying concerning the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation


Again, when you read Acts 5:31, instead of ripping the verse out of the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it, you need to include (at the very least) the next verse:

Acts 5:

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

The "those that do not obey Him" of Acts 5:32 are the same as those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness of Romans 1:18.

As I have pointed out to you numerous times ...

Scripture is also clear that God reveals Himself and some reject God ... not because they do not have faith, but because they suppress/restrain the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Rom 1:18-20 tells us that God makes plain His eternal power and Godhead ... however, this truth is suppressed. The words "who hold" in vs 18 are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.

It is clear from vs 19 that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead and it is clear from vs 18 that it is the person who rejects God.

Christ gives Israel Repentance and forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here isnt a ethnic jewish people, its Gods elect from all nations Acts 11:18

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,

which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Thayer's clearly states that the word kosmos as used in John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 2 Cor 5:19, 1 John 2:2 refers to definition #5.

World here in these verses are the saved from the nations

brightfame52 said:
If He died for a person, that person is Justified from all sin, saved from its penalty
God tells us when a person is justified:


Acts 13:39 And by him [the Lord Jesus Christ] all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

From Calvin's Commentaries (bold/underline mine):
Every one that believeth, Paul showeth how men obtain the righteousness of Christ; to wit, when they receive it by faith; and that which faith doth obtain is not obtained by any merits of works. Wherefore, Paul's opinion is plain, that we are justified by faith alone, which, notwithstanding the Papists oppugn [oppose] and strive against no less obstinately than bitterly, nevertheless, it is requisite that we know what the word believe doth import, which is made unsavory to the Papists through ignorance.

Are you a papist???

Everyone Christ died for is Justified by His blood Rom 5:9 and so they will be given Faith to believe it.

brightfame52 said:
Heb 9:12

Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
click

Christ for them He died for, obtained their eternal redemption, forgiveness, they are eternally saved by His own blood. Redemption here means:

lutrósis:

λύτρωσις, λυτρώσεως, ἡ (λυτρόω), a ransoming, redemption: properly, αἰχμαολωτων, Plutarch, Aratus, 11; for גְּאֻלָּה, Leviticus 2529),48; universally, deliverance, redemption, in the theocratic sense (see λυτρόω, 2 (cf. Graecus Venetus, Leviticus 25:10, etc.; Psalm 48:9 ())): Luke 1:68; Luke 2:38; specifically, redemption from the penalty of sin: Hebrews 9:12

They have been eternally delivered from the penalty of sin which is death. Now you deny this !

 

[brightfame52]

Your failure to comprehend the point is because you equate all of Scripture to be the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom of 1 Cor 2:7 (which is what 1 Cor 2:13-14 speaks of).

Not all of Scripture is the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom (1 Cor 2:7).

Some of Scripture recites history and no "spiritual discernment" is required in order to comprehend what is written.

That you reject this truth does not change the fact that it is true.

You preach the words of the adversary when you attempt to make Scripture so beyond all comprehension ... which is why you will see Bibles "setting around collecting dust" because (according to you) the Word of God is just "words written on paper".

Your attempts fail because God's Word is more powerful than your erroneous dogma.
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Again the natural man, which is the unregenerate man, doesnt and cant spiritually understand the things of God, like the Gospel of God, its foolishness to him because these things must be spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[brightfame52]

Your inability to refute the central point is excruciatingly obvious.

If you cannot address the point, just move on.

You claim:




If a person is born again, he/she is already a son of God.

John 1:

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name


The Lord Jesus Christ clearly states that He gave power [the right, the privilege] to become the sons of God (vs 12) to those who did not reject Him (vs 11).

If they are already "born of God", they already are the sons of God. There would be no need for the Lord Jesus Christ to give them what they already have and are.
.

Yes a person is a son of God before they are born again. The very fact that God loves a person denotes they are a child of God 1 Jn 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

God regenerates a person for whom Christ died, and redeemed, because they are sons, He sends the Spirit into their hearts, to regenerate Gal 4:4-6


4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

You see that ? It was because they were already sons, that God sent the Spirit into their hearts to renew them, and give them spiritual life. Its then they can call upon the name of Christ and believe in Him.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

brightfame52 said:

you criticize and judge
nope ... I address the point of your claim and submit a rebuttal to your claim.

I have never stated that you are not a believer as you did when you claimed in your Post 2329 that it was your "privilege to tell ya that they really don’t believe it at all !".

That you do not understand the difference between examination/scrutinization of your dogma and a personal attack does equal me personally "criticiz[ing] and judg[ing]" you. It means you do not comprehend that rebuttal to your claim ≠ personal attack.

You still playing the hypocrite, criticizing and judging me and exonerating yourself . You may as well let that go, you just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

your erroneous dogma does not affect me in the least.


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Since you condition Justification before God, not on Christs work alone, but your human faith instead, you put yourself under the law. Faith is a requirement of the Law of God Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Now you need to keep the whole law to be Justified before God

Rom 2:13

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[brightfame52]

hahahahahahahaha your inability to address the issue does not equal me denying my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

You so silly!!!!!
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Call it what you will, you deny the testimony of Christs resurrection, that those He died for are Justified before God, sins put away ! So they are Justified before they believe, but believe they will

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

I believe all in this forum believe God justifies the ungodly ... that is not the issue.

What is the issue is your claim that a person is "justified before he became a believer". That is what you claimed in Post 2648.

If (as you claim) a person is "justified before he became a believer", the verb tense in Romans 4:5 would be past tense. However, all the verbs are in the present tense, which means the person is justified at the time he/she believes ... not at some distant point in the past as you claim.

You have even gone so far as to claim that if one is "elect", he/she does "not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" (your Post 1804). What a lie from the pit.

Yes, God Justified the ungodly, whoever Christ died for, that Death for them Justified them, even before they believe. Christ died for plenty of people and Justified them from their sins, before they believed, even before they were born ungodly sinners. I showed you the same truth which you reject, but is stated differently, and that is, People Christ died for are reconciled to God, while they are enemies, and you flat out reject it Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So once again, you deny the testification of Christs resurrection
another false accusation from the accuser of the brethren.

Of course you do, Christs resurrection testifies that the sinners Christ died for are Justified, and you say they arent. Thats denial, and of the worst kind Im afraid.

Again, brightfame52, answer the question:

Do you really believe if not for mankind believing, the Lord Jesus Christ would have remained in the grave ... that the grave could hold Him???

I dont know what you talking about. You sound confused.

you ignored what Gill had to say about the one who "exercises faith on God" when you quoted from his commentary.

You bolded your pertinent point (shown below in blue).

I bolded the black/red text. The last couple of lines which highlight the faith factor is what you ignore:
but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own; wherefore he imputes the righteousness of another, even that of his own Son, unto them: and though he justifies the ungodly, he does not justify their ungodliness, but them from it; nor will he, nor does he leave them to live and die in it; now to him that worketh not, that is perfect righteousness; or has no opportunity of working at all; or what he does, he does not do, that he might be justified by it; but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness

I agree with Gill here, I showed you the comment a while back and you flat out denied it stating, oh Gill is a calvinist. Now you trying to agree with me and him, you are very mixed up. Gill plainly says"the ungodly: or that ungodly one: particular reference is had to Abraham, who in his state of unregeneracy was an ungodly person; as all God's elect are in a state of nature, and are such when God justifies them, being without a righteousness of their own;"

Then reinforces it by saying"but exercises faith on God as justifying persons, who, like himself, are sinners, ungodly and destitute of a righteousness"

Everyone who Christ Justified while they were ungodly, will in due time be born again, given Faith to believe they are Justified. You just confused.

How many times does God have to tell you that mankind it justified by faith before you believe Him?

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Again, you in grevious error in your understanding, and it boils down to you flat out reject the testimony of Christs resurrection that the people He Christ died for, are Justified. Also you promote justification by your human faith, making you an advocate of Justification by keeping the Law ! You actually deny Justification by Faith. because Justification by Faith is no more than Justification by Christ.