Senate passes same-sex marriage bill with bipartisan support

[Dude653]

Oh, like us when we were seeing people die and saying "I don't know for sure but I don't trust this vaccine"

My understanding is that you have a choice. The spirit and the flesh are battling. We don't all have the same temptations. Some are covetous, not all. Some are disobedient and rebellious to parents, not all. Some are adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, not all. We each are sinful and we each have to deny the flesh and the promise is that the Lord does not put us through more than we can handle.

On the one hand some Christians have been too judgemental of sin condemning others for things that they themselves have done, and hence come across as hypocritical. Other Christians have been compromising with sin. They go along to get along. The way of the cross deals with sin, it deals with flesh, it deals with the world.

Sam Harris sites of study in which test subjects were asked to pick between two images on a computer screen, while hooked up to an EKG, by mapping the parts of the brain that lit up on the ekg, they were able to accurately predict which images the test subjects would pick
Neuroscience fascinating stuff. Turns out our brains do a lot of stuff that we're not even consciously aware of

 

[ZNP]

Sam Harris sites of study in which test subjects were asked to pick between two images on a computer screen, while hooked up to an EKG, by mapping the parts of the brain that lit up on the ekg, they were able to accurately predict which images the test subjects would pick
Neuroscience fascinating stuff. Turns out our brains do a lot of stuff that we're not even consciously aware of

They have proven that you can train your brain. For example, many people in America if you show them an Asian person cannot identify which country they came from. They cannot tell the difference between China, Vietnam or Philippines. However, when I was in Taiwan for a few years I could tell the difference for the most part. Maybe not 100%, but easily 85% I could tell which country they were from. The hardest for me was South Korean vs Japanese, but if the person talked it was easy.

There was a case where young black men were robbing Chinese women in San Francisco, grabbing their purses and running. They would do this in broad daylight and the women couldn't identify them. All they saw was "young black man". So they put them under a brain scan and when you showed them a face of a black man a little dot would light up but when you showed them the face of an Asian man many different regions of the brain would light up. They were trained to see the subtle differences.

Likewise, when I began teaching in Brooklyn I had much more trouble remembering every student by their face than my colleagues who had been born and raised in Brooklyn. But after a few years I became much more capable.

They have done many studies like this. For example a chess grandmaster will use less energy evaluating a position and their brain will be much more active looking at the chess board than an average person's brain.

 

[Dude653]

They have proven that you can train your brain. For example, many people in America if you show them an Asian person cannot identify which country they came from. They cannot tell the difference between China, Vietnam or Philippines. However, when I was in Taiwan for a few years I could tell the difference for the most part. Maybe not 100%, but easily 85% I could tell which country they were from. The hardest for me was South Korean vs Japanese, but if the person talked it was easy.

There was a case where young black men were robbing Chinese women in San Francisco, grabbing their purses and running. They would do this in broad daylight and the women couldn't identify them. All they saw was "young black man". So they put them under a brain scan and when you showed them a face of a black man a little dot would light up but when you showed them the face of an Asian man many different regions of the brain would light up. They were trained to see the subtle differences.

Likewise, when I began teaching in Brooklyn I had much more trouble remembering every student by their face than my colleagues who had been born and raised in Brooklyn. But after a few years I became much more capable.

They have done many studies like this. For example a chess grandmaster will use less energy evaluating a position and their brain will be much more active looking at the chess board than an average person's brain.

Turns out eyewitness testimony pretty unreliable
I've seen studies in which college professors would hire an actor to come in and steal something like a purse off the table during the lecture and then ask them to identify which person stole the item and they would get it wrong almost every time

 

[Cameron143]

you do understand that the American Family Association is a Christian organization withe several hundred thousand members and an annual income form donation in excess of 210 million dollars...right?

and you are aware that the original claim here was that the AFA is being falsely persecuted as a hate group...right?

Would you mind sharing with me your background?

 

[Scarecrow]

This whole conversation comes down to your definition of bigotry. "Discriminating" against a same-sex wedding is not in the same universe as discriminating against an interracial wedding. I know, you think it is, and I do not. I've made my case, you refused to hear it. Moving on.

its the same. in one case you have a couple denied the same rights as the general population because of minority status. In the other case you have a couple denied the same rights as the general population because of minority status. its really that simple

So, it then comes down to people in power who do not respect 1st amendment rights. The government is supposed to respect a citizen's religious beliefs and allow them to practice them freely -- barring public safety concerns, such as an edict that calls for human sacrifice.

there are other restrictions such as imposing your religion onto others.



However treating everyone with the same respect that you demand for yourself isn't imposing anything on the practice of anyone's religion.


A business owner who's religious beliefs include racism can't refuse to hire someone based on their skin color.
A landlord who's religious beliefs include anti-Semitism can't refuse to rent property based on someone's religion
A restaurant owner who's religion beliefs include viewing the handicapped a cursed by God can't refuse to serve someone in a wheelchair

all of these people and OGBT individuals are protected by the 14th amendment which says every one...even people you don't happen to like...are equal in the eyes of the law and cannot be denied access to goods and services just because they are members of a minority.

No one has the special right to discriminate.

Now, you do not want the Bible to be the law of the land, but you sure have no problem telling a Christian business owner when and where they're permitted to practice their beliefs and where they're not. That's unconstitutional and it's fascistic. It also assumes you to be God, since you apparently can override Him. That wall of separation that Jefferson wrote about in his letter to the Danbury Baptists seems to only block in one direction for the Left -- and you. Funny how that works.

I'm not preventing anyone from practicing their religion. I am not forcing or preventing anyone from engaging in prayer.

If a business discriminates against me, I'll move on and give my money to another more accommodating. I'm not going to punish them with a lawsuit because my feelings are hurt, and because of some silly, unconstitutional public accommodation mantra. Their "discrimination" and my myriad choices in a capitalistic society is called freedom, something the Left -- and you -- do not respect.

spoken like someone who has never experienced discrimination.

Side note...There are Muslim service-providers out there who will likewise not cater to same-sex weddings. But, no one's suing them. Wonder why. Could it be an anti-christian bigotry? Nah... the secularist is too enlightened for that. Besides, everybody knows you can't discriminate against a Christian, but you can a Muslim. That's called Islamophobia. And as we all know, there's no such word as Christophobia, so therefore you can discriminate against Christian businesses, but that's a legitimate discrimination -- the only one the Left will accept. Not like there's a hateful double-standard or anything here.

actually no there aren't

I suspect you are referring to a video made by a right wing vlogger Stephen Crowder. He claimed that three Muslim owned Michigan bakeries but the FLint Journal exposed him. one of the bakeries was actually a bread factory, they only baked bread, the manager there also directed Crowder to his cousin's bakery across the street who would be happy to make the wedding cake. a second bakery was Lebinese and only catered traditional wedding fare for weddings, which in that culture doesn't include a cake. they were more than willing to cater Crowder's same sex wedding. the third bakery actually took Crowder's cake order and he just called later canceling it and then claiming he was refused. For several months the bakery proudly displayed his signed order.

 

[Scarecrow]

Then produce a more credible study, you were the one that made the claim that the heterosexual pedophiles outnumbered the gay ones, did you make that up? If not produce the source.

Jenny, Carole; Roesler, Thomas A.; Poyer, Kimberly L. “Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals?” Pediatrics

Dr. Carole Jenny was the director of the Child Advocacy and Protection Team at Denver's Childrens Hospital, and she also directed medical programs at the C. Henry Kempe National Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect. For one year Dr. Jenny and her colleagues followed the 269 cases of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults interviewing the perpetrators. Three children were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. 258 of the children were assaulted by men, of these 191 were the biological father of the children and 67 were in a heterosexual relationship with child’s mother. They asked the perpetrators and only one perpetrator identified as homosexual. This means that the percentage of homosexual child molesters is 0.3%

Groth, A. Nicholas; Birnbaum, H Jean. “Adult sexual orientation and attraction to underage persons.” Archives of Sexual Behavior studied all of the 175 convicted male child molesters in the Mass prison system, none of which were homosexual


Holmes, W.C. and Slap, G.B. (1998). Sexual abuse of boys: “98 percent of pedophile men are heterosexual.”


WC Holmes The sexual abuse of boys JAMA. found almost identical numbers as Jenny

L. Cromer et al Child abuse myths J of Sexual Abuse found less than 1% of child molesters were homosexual men

I can go on.

 

[Scarecrow]

William Lloyd Garrison moved to Boston in 1828. His profound sense of Christian morality led him to become an advocate for the abolitionist cause, and in 1831, with the support of the black abolitionist community, he founded the anti-slavery newspaper The Liberator. Through the paper, which would become one of the most influential publications of the movement, Garrison propagated his view that "moral suasion" and nonviolence would be effective methods to promote abolition. He was one of the founding members of the American Anti-Slavery Society in 1833.


The daughter of one of the wealthiest slave-owning families in Charleston, South Carolina, Angelina Grimké was deeply religious; she believed slavery was a sin, and that God would punish those who owned and enslaved other human beings. Resolving to leave Charleston and the pollutions of slavery, Angelina moved to Philadelphia in 1829, where she ultimately became actively involved in the abolitionist and women's rights movements, despite the shame it brought her family. Her pedigree among the slaveholding aristocracy was a weapon that few other abolitionists could claim, and it lent credibility to her anti-slavery views and to the movement as a whole.


John Brown was raised by devout Calvinists who believed in treating people of all races fairly. As a child, Brown witnessed the cruel mistreatment of an enslaved boy. From that time onward, he believed fervently that slavery was evil.


As a young woman in Cincinnati, Harriet Beecher Stowe -- daughter of the influential minister, Lyman Beecher -- shared her father's opposition to slavery in principle, but agreed with him that abolitionist activists were "unfashionable" and "reckless." In 1833, Stowe's opinions began to change when she travelled to Kentucky and saw slavery up close for the first time... she was inspired to write Uncle Tom's Cabin. Published in 1852, the novel was both a heartbreaking portrayal of the suffering of enslaved people and a plea for whites to assume their Christian duty to end slavery forever.

Lucretia Mott was a leading social reformer of her time...Mott was strongly opposed to slavery and a supporter of William Lloyd Garrison and his American Anti-Slavery Society. She was dedicated to women's rights.Mott became a Quaker minister, noted for her speaking abilities.

Thomas Wentworth Higginson was an American Unitarian minister, author, abolitionist, politician, and soldier. He was active in the American Abolitionism movement during the 1840s and 1850
Following the war, he wrote about his experiences with African American soldiers and devoted much of the rest of his life to fighting for the rights of freed people, women, and other disfranchised peoples.

English Anglican clergyman and poet John Newton... Newton began studying Christian theology and later became an abolitionist. He had previously been a captain of slave ships and an investor in the slave trade. He served as a sailor in the Royal Navy (after forced recruitment) and was himself enslaved for a time in West Africa. He is noted for being author of the hymns Amazing Grace and Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken.

do you have a point?

 

[ZNP]

Turns out eyewitness testimony pretty unreliable
I've seen studies in which college professors would hire an actor to come in and steal something like a purse off the table during the lecture and then ask them to identify which person stole the item and they would get it wrong almost every time

I forget the odds, but one eyewitness would be wrong more than 50% of the time, two eyewitnesses would be right about 65% of the time, and three eyewitnesses are right about 90% of the time.

 

[ZNP]

Holmes, W.C. and Slap, G.B. (1998). Sexual abuse of boys: “98 percent of pedophile men are heterosexual.”

I do not have access to anything more than the abstract, but it doesn't mention that.

Holmes, W. C., & Slap, G. B. (1998). Sexual abuse of boys: Definition, prevalence, correlates, sequelae, and management. JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association, 280(21), 1855–1862. https://doi.org/10.1001/jama.280.21.1855

Abstract
The objectives of this review were to clarify the definition of sexual abuse of boys (aged 19 yrs or younger); to estimate its prevalence; and to explore critically the reported victim, perpetrator and event characteristics, sequelae, and management. Studies on male sexual abuse cited in OVID-MEDLINE and OVID-CINAHL, from 1985 to 1997, were identified. Study designs and sampling methods were categorized using well-established methods. 166 studies representing 149 sexual abuse samples were identified. Prevalence estimates ranged from 4% to 76%, depending on definition used and population studied. The mean age of first sexual abuse was 9.8 yrs. Boys who were nonwhite, lived only with their mothers, or lived with no parents were at increased risk for sexual abuse. Victims typically described 3 or more types of sexually abusive acts, including penetration. Studies of actual clinical outcomes (rather than perceptions) indicate that sexually abused males were at increased risk for negative clinical sequelae. These included posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), aggressive behavior, and sexually related problems. Males who had been sexually abused were not likely to speak about the experience, and the management of detected cases of abuse was poor. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved)

 

[ZNP]

Jenny, Carole; Roesler, Thomas A.; Poyer, Kimberly L. “Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals?” Pediatrics

Dr. Carole Jenny was the director of the Child Advocacy and Protection Team at Denver's Childrens Hospital, and she also directed medical programs at the C. Henry Kempe National Center for the Prevention and Treatment of Child Abuse and Neglect. For one year Dr. Jenny and her colleagues followed the 269 cases of Denver-area children who were sexually abused by adults interviewing the perpetrators. Three children were molested by women, five were molested by both parents, and three others were molested by non-relatives. 258 of the children were assaulted by men, of these 191 were the biological father of the children and 67 were in a heterosexual relationship with child’s mother. They asked the perpetrators and only one perpetrator identified as homosexual. This means that the percentage of homosexual child molesters is 0.3%.

Here they don't say 0.3% as you allege, they say 3.1% and if the population of homosexual men is 3% of men then that means people are equally likely to be "homosexual" or "heterosexual".

Again I would repeat that "pedophiles" are identified as people who are sexually aroused by prepubescents whereas rape is defined as "It is an aggressive act motivated by hostility and dislike for the opposite sex. Perpretators of this criminal act gain a sense of power and dominance by inflicting pain and terror upon t heir prey. Nearly all rapes result in bodily harm, and in most cases women suffer ongoing emotional trauma."

So conflating the two would cause confusion.

Are children at risk for sexual abuse by homosexuals?
C Jenny 1, T A Roesler, K L Poyer
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 8008535

Abstract
Objective: To determine if recognizably homosexual adults are frequently accused of the sexual molestation of children.
Design: Chart review of medical records of children evaluated for sexual abuse.
Setting: Child sexual abuse clinic at a regional children's hospital.
Patients: Patients were 352 children (276 girls and 76 boys) referred to a subspecialty clinic for the evaluation of suspected child sexual abuse. Mean age was 6.1 years (range, 7 months to 17 years).
Data collected: Charts were reviewed to determine the relationships of the children to the alleged offender, the sex of the offender, and whether or not the alleged offender was reported to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual.
Results: Abuse was ruled out in 35 cases. Seventy-four children were allegedly abused by other children and teenagers less than 18 years old. In 9 cases, an offender could not be identified. In the remaining 269 cases, two offenders were identified as being gay or lesbian. In 82% of cases (222/269), the alleged offender was a heterosexual partner of a close relative of the child. Using the data from our study, the 95% confidence limits, of the risk children would identify recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser, are from 0% to 3.1%. These limits are within current estimates of the prevalence of homosexuality in the general community.
Conclusions: The children in the group studied were unlikely to have been molested by identifiably gay or lesbian people.

 

[kaylagrl]

do you have a point?

Read it a couple times, you'll get it, I believe in you.

 

[HeIsHere]

Dude, please though also be aware that a lot of the fallout from these shots hasn't always been about death, but about crippling side effects that still leave the patients alive.

People who have had Covid suffer from the same problems, long Covid.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

A lot of claims but no sources.

woudl you even look at the sources?

Lets find o

the "humiliation of attending a school named for an African American." comes from Michael Haverluck writing at OneNewsNow, June 20, 2018 OneNewsNow was the AFA's news blog

the views on Pocahontas is from Bryan Fisher the executive director of the AFA written on their websight on February 15 2011 "“It’s arresting to think of how different the history of the American settlement and expansion could have been if the other indigenous peoples had followed Pocahontas’ example. She not only recognized the superiority of the God whom the colonists worshipped over the gods of her native people, she recognized the superiority (not the perfection) of their culture and adopted its patterns and language as her own. In other words, she both converted and assimilated. ... Had the other indigenous people followed her example, their assimilation into what became America could have been seamless and bloodless."

(it ignores the fact she was imprisoned and denied food and water until she converted but ... who cares about that?)


only Christians should be allowed to immigrate to America was also from Bryan Fisher April 6 2011 in the AFA newsletter


"they rut like rabbits" also from the AFA newsletter September 6 2011 and agian by Bryan Fisher

“Muslim Americans do not have First Amendment rights,” was stated on Fox News May 8 2015 by Sandy Rios, Director of governmental affairs for the American Family Association


I assume you will ignore all this


they weren't seeking asylum they already had that and they lied to gain entrance to the country.[/QUOTE]

Disclaimer: Brian Fisher was fired for extreme remarks.

(woudl you even look at the sources?)

Unfortunately, you didn't post any sources but quotes out of context.

(the "humiliation of attending a school named for an African American." comes from Michael Haverluck writing at OneNewsNow, June 20, 2018 OneNewsNow was the AFA's news blog)

No context.

(the views on Pocahontas is from Bryan Fisher the executive director of the AFA written on their websight on February 15 2011 "“It’s arresting to think of how different the history of the American settlement and expansion could have been if the other indigenous peoples had followed Pocahontas’ example. She not only recognized the superiority of the God whom the colonists worshipped over the gods of her native people, she recognized the superiority (not the perfection) of their culture and adopted its patterns and language as her own. In other words, she both converted and assimilated. ... Had the other indigenous people followed her example, their assimilation into what became America could have been seamless and bloodless."

it ignores the fact she was imprisoned and denied food and water until she converted but ... who cares about that?)

The Indians would have been better off if they repented of pagan worship and turned to Jesus. God used both pagan and Israel to bring judgment on sin.


(only Christians should be allowed to immigrate to America was also from Bryan Fisher April 6 2011 in the AFA newsletter)

No context. If he meant assimilation into Christian values then I agree.


("they rut like rabbits" also from the AFA newsletter September 6 2011 and agian by Bryan Fisher)

No context. Who, what, why?

(“Muslim Americans do not have First Amendment rights,” was stated on Fox News May 8 2015 by Sandy Rios, Director of governmental affairs for the American Family Association)

No context. If you mean to commit jihad then no they do not.


(I assume you will ignore all this)

You assumed incorrectly.


( they weren't seeking asylum they already had that and they lied to gain entrance to the country.)

They were seeking asylum in AMERICA.

 

[ZNP]

People who have had Covid suffer from the same problems, long Covid.

We do know there can be long term effects from having Covid, we do not know if they are "the same problems". Have you seen "Died Suddenly"? It is my understanding that those problems are only found in people who were vaccinated. There were many people who died with Covid, no doubt many of them were embalmed and yet no one saw these problems with them.

While trying to embalm people who died suddenly after being vaccinated they have discovered strange white rubbery strands as long as 3 feet clogging the veins and arteries. They were unable to embalm the people until they removed these because they couldn't run the fluid through the body.

They have also noticed that the blood looks like it has sand or coffee grounds in it. These are tiny clots that clog up and destroy organs.

These things were not observed until after the vaccine.

 

[HeIsHere]

We do know there can be long term effects from having Covid, we do not know if they are "the same problems". Have you seen "Died Suddenly"? It is my understanding that those problems are only found in people who were vaccinated. There were many people who died with Covid, no doubt many of them were embalmed and yet no one saw these problems with them.

While trying to embalm people who died suddenly after being vaccinated they have discovered strange white rubbery strands as long as 3 feet clogging the veins and arteries. They were unable to embalm the people until they removed these because they couldn't run the fluid through the body.

They have also noticed that the blood looks like it has sand or coffee grounds in it. These are tiny clots that clog up and destroy organs.

These things were not observed until after the vaccine.

"Died Suddenly" does very well with drama and superficial analysis and should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I think we just need to face the fact we will never know the full story of Covid and the vaccine.

I am ready to move on we have new problems on the horizon.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

and SSM has zero effect on this.

so shouldn't you be against obese people getting married?

so having two dads must be a great thing

(and SSM has zero effect on this.)

Gay marriage doesn't produce children and contributes to the decline of society.

Sex and Culture
by Joseph Daniel Unwin

In Sex and Culture (1934), Oxford scholar J. D. Unwin studied 80 primitive tribes and 6 civilizations through 5,000 years of history and found a positive correlation between the cultural achievement of a people and the sexual restraint they observe.

Here is some of key findings. I listed page numbers as well.

Generally speaking, in the past when they began to display great energy (as opposed to the lesser energy of uncivilized peoples), human societies were absolutely monogamous. There is only one example of a polygamous society displaying productive social energy, that of the Moors; but m their case the women whom the men took to wife had been reared in an absolutely monogamous tradition. The energy of the Moors faded away when the mothers spent their early childhood in a less rigorous tradition. With this exception, the energy of the most developed civilized societies, or that of any group within them, was exhibited for so long as they preserved their austere regulations. Their energy faded away as soon as a modified monogamy became part of the inherited tradition of the whole society. Page 345

These societies lived in different geographical environments; they belonged to different racial stocks; but the history of their marriage customs is the same. In the beginning each society had the same ideas in regard to sexual regulations. Then the same struggles took place; the same sentiments were expressed; the same changes were made; the same results ensued. Each society reduced its sexual opportunity to a minimum and, displaying great social energy, flourished greatly. Then it extended its sexual opportunity; its energy decreased, and faded away. The one outstanding feature of the whole story is its unrelieved monotony. Page 383

When absolute monogamy was preserved only for a short time, the energy was only expansive, but when the rigorous tradition was inherited by a number of generations the energy became productive. As soon as the institution of modified monogamy, that is, marriage and divorce by mutual consent, became part of the inherited tradition of a complete new generation, the energy, either of the whole society or of a group within the society, decreased, and then disappeared.
Page 414

Any human society is free to choose either to display great energy or to enjoy sexual freedom; the evidence is that it cannot do both for more than one generation. Page 414

( so shouldn't you be against obese people getting married?)

Oh, we definitely should be supporting healthier lifestyles. In fact, instead of me paying more in taxes or insurance, LGBT, smokers, gluttens, etc should pay more. Like driving reckless makes the reckless driver pay more insurance.

( so having two dads must be a great thing)

You forget the other half. The mother. Without the mother a kid can suffer as well.

 

[ZNP]

"Died Suddenly" does very well with drama and superficial analysis and should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

I think we just need to face the fact we will never know the full story of Covid and the vaccine.

I am ready to move on we have new problems on the horizon.

Don't care about the analysis. The facts and the observable physical evidence was not "superficial".

When you have people who have worked 20-50 years embalming people and they are all saying they never saw this before those are credible eyewitness accounts.

When you see the stuff they have pulled out of arteries that is physical evidence, a powerful witness.

When you watch an embalmer actually pull these things out of a body of someone who just died that is another powerful witness.

When you see a 40% increase in the death rate of working age Americans, something described as a 40 sigma event that is powerful evidence.

When you see a 70% drop in the birth rate in Australia that is powerful evidence.

I am not ready to move on. I want a full accounting and see no reason why we cannot know the full story, even if it takes 50 years. I want criminals held accountable, I want trials, convictions, class action lawsuits, executions and bankruptcies. I want God to judge and I want God to pour out His wrath. I believe the entire world will want to know about these sorcerers, they will despise them, and they will destroy them.

 

[HeIsHere]

I would define well-being as everyone having equal rights
Living in relative safety like not living in a place where they will chop my head off or something I say on Facebook
Access to sufficient healthcare
Not starving to death
Not being subjected to unnecessary violence like domestic violence etc
Not having to worry about someone beating you to death with a baseball bat because of your sexual preferences ECT...
I guess not everyone is going to care about well-being so that part is subjective but if we can subjectively agree that human well-being is the goal then there should be things we can objectively agree on that are not conducive to human well-being

There is no way to have an objective position on what constitutes "well-being" since by its very nature is subjective.

I fear you have been listening to Sam Harris too much and with his recent melt down he definitely is not someone I would give much credence too.

As far as his neuroscience background there are many far more learned and smarter than him.

The irony is that because you want to remove objective morality from the picture, the very society you are advocating for (Brave New World) is far more oppressive than one that is set up according to objective morality.

The problem is that while you affirm people living "their" truth forces others to conform to a lie because their truth does not match reality. You have succumbed to the power of persuasion and make no mistake this is "power" it is just not by force.

@Scarecrow is a perfect example.

 

[HeIsHere]

Don't care about the analysis. The facts and the observable physical evidence was not "superficial".

When you have people who have worked 20-50 years embalming people and they are all saying they never saw this before those are credible eyewitness accounts.

When you see the stuff they have pulled out of arteries that is physical evidence, a powerful witness.

When you watch an embalmer actually pull these things out of a body of someone who just died that is another powerful witness.

When you see a 40% increase in the death rate of working age Americans, something described as a 40 sigma event that is powerful evidence.

When you see a 70% drop in the birth rate in Australia that is powerful evidence.

I am not ready to move on. I want a full accounting and see no reason why we cannot know the full story, even if it takes 50 years. I want criminals held accountable, I want trials, convictions, class action lawsuits, executions and bankruptcies. I want God to judge and I want God to pour out His wrath. I believe the entire world will want to know about these sorcerers, they will despise them, and they will destroy them.

We have not way to verify what we are actually seeing is true and no way of knowing these people are who they say they are.

 

[ZNP]

(and SSM has zero effect on this.)

Gay marriage doesn't produce children and contributes to the decline of society.

Sex and Culture
by Joseph Daniel Unwin

In Sex and Culture (1934), Oxford scholar J. D. Unwin studied 80 primitive tribes and 6 civilizations through 5,000 years of history and found a positive correlation between the cultural achievement of a people and the sexual restraint they observe.

Here is some of key findings. I listed page numbers as well.

Generally speaking, in the past when they began to display great energy (as opposed to the lesser energy of uncivilized peoples), human societies were absolutely monogamous. There is only one example of a polygamous society displaying productive social energy, that of the Moors; but m their case the women whom the men took to wife had been reared in an absolutely monogamous tradition. The energy of the Moors faded away when the mothers spent their early childhood in a less rigorous tradition. With this exception, the energy of the most developed civilized societies, or that of any group within them, was exhibited for so long as they preserved their austere regulations. Their energy faded away as soon as a modified monogamy became part of the inherited tradition of the whole society. Page 345

These societies lived in different geographical environments; they belonged to different racial stocks; but the history of their marriage customs is the same. In the beginning each society had the same ideas in regard to sexual regulations. Then the same struggles took place; the same sentiments were expressed; the same changes were made; the same results ensued. Each society reduced its sexual opportunity to a minimum and, displaying great social energy, flourished greatly. Then it extended its sexual opportunity; its energy decreased, and faded away. The one outstanding feature of the whole story is its unrelieved monotony. Page 383

When absolute monogamy was preserved only for a short time, the energy was only expansive, but when the rigorous tradition was inherited by a number of generations the energy became productive. As soon as the institution of modified monogamy, that is, marriage and divorce by mutual consent, became part of the inherited tradition of a complete new generation, the energy, either of the whole society or of a group within the society, decreased, and then disappeared.
Page 414

Any human society is free to choose either to display great energy or to enjoy sexual freedom; the evidence is that it cannot do both for more than one generation. Page 414

( so shouldn't you be against obese people getting married?)

Oh, we definitely should be supporting healthier lifestyles. In fact, instead of me paying more in taxes or insurance, LGBT, smokers, gluttens, etc should pay more. Like driving reckless makes the reckless driver pay more insurance.

( so having two dads must be a great thing)

You forget the other half. The mother. Without the mother a kid can suffer as well.

At the heart of it homosexuality is all about sex and fleshly pleasure.

The same can be said of fornication, though many caught up in that may have hoped for lasting relationships, family and kids but were deceived.

However, marriage and monogamy indicates restraint. It is a responsible dealing with sex. It is obviously not "all about sex and pleasure". People who have that focus do not want to get married and no one wants to marry them.

The exception to the rule of course are the elites who marry for financial reasons, political reasons, and for their public image. This is why they stay married despite the corruption and hypocrisy behind the curtain. Diana's sin in their eyes was pulling that curtain back and refusing to be an actress in their play.