Millions of people around the world pray everyday for just about everything: bless this, heal that, give me whatever. If a prayer isn't answered, which is 99.8% of the time, then it just wasn't Gods will, it wasn't in his plan. Well if God has a plan why would you pray for something and try to mess with his plan? It's divine. He has had this plan in action for thousands of years and everyday someone is trying to mess it up. If God wanted you to get the promotion you have been asking for he would have just given it to you. If God didn't want your mother to have breast cancer, he wouldn't have given it to her. Who are we to think that we know better than the divine plan?
Why do we pray?
- Thread starter wbwbwes
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Um, I would just like to explain to you that God doesn't give a person an illness or disability, the enemy and sin cause those things, but God can make good come from bad things like that. Prayer is our connection with God, and isn't always used to say "Hey God, I want this and this to happen.", and it wasn't really intended for that. Also, there are more prayers answered than you think, I don't see where you got that number from... People don't try to mess up God's plan by praying, and I am sure God doesn't see it as that, either. I have a feeling you are almost saying that we shouldn't pray at all, and that is not what God wants us to do, because how can we call ourselves Christians if we don't pray and actually talk to and get to know our Lord? God cares about what we care about. God listens to and cares about our prayers, and He answers them.
B
We pray because one, we are commanded to pray. "Pray without ceasing..." Pray letting your request be made known unto God", and so forth. Prayer is communion with God. Not praying is like saying, Hey, I love you I just don't want to talk to you." God desires our prayers and always answers. Just because we don't get what we want doesn't mean He doesn't hear us. Truth is we don't know what we need. God's answer will be , yes, no, or wait.
We often pray selfishly. God wants us to pray in line with His Kingdom. In other words, pray with things He would want for us. I have heard people pray for jobs, homes, cars, mates, money, but why do we ask for those things? God said seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you.
Pray, God show me your will for my life. God, show me how to serve others today. God help me die to my wants and seek you first. He will answer these prayers. sure He wants to give you your desires but keep it in order. Sometimes, God's best answer is no answer at all.
God Bless you Precious One!
Bob
We often pray selfishly. God wants us to pray in line with His Kingdom. In other words, pray with things He would want for us. I have heard people pray for jobs, homes, cars, mates, money, but why do we ask for those things? God said seek first the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added to you.
Pray, God show me your will for my life. God, show me how to serve others today. God help me die to my wants and seek you first. He will answer these prayers. sure He wants to give you your desires but keep it in order. Sometimes, God's best answer is no answer at all.
God Bless you Precious One!
Bob
What good could possibly come from a child born with terminal illness that his parents probably didn't even know about? If it is mans sin that causes these things why punish the innocent? To make an example out of them for the sinners to see? So they know not to sin again? I'm not saying don't pray, just that it seems a little pointless. If it makes you feel better inside then there is no reason why you shouldn't pray. But it does seem a little arrogent to think that all god is doing in heaven is loving us and answering our meaningless prayers when he has an entire universe to look over.
J
Yep.
Not sure how you can quantify this. You'd have to know what everyone everywhere ever prays for, let alone the validity of what they pray for. I can ask God for a Corvette filled with busty women, and while I might like this, it won't be granted. Surely I don't have to explain to you why this would be denied.
Sure, what's the problem? You really think we should/can/could, shape God into our own image? Although, nevermind, bad question, because as an atheist you use Logic(presusposses God) to deny God, and claim it was all made up out of a hat.
I don't understand why people wanna mess with his plan either. There are two types of people; those who say, "Thy will be done", and those to whom God says, "alright, have it your way."
Try to keep in mind, just want this entails.
Yup.
Now you're assuming absolute determinism.
Not sure how you can quantify this. You'd have to know what everyone everywhere ever prays for, let alone the validity of what they pray for. I can ask God for a Corvette filled with busty women, and while I might like this, it won't be granted. Surely I don't have to explain to you why this would be denied.
Sure, what's the problem? You really think we should/can/could, shape God into our own image? Although, nevermind, bad question, because as an atheist you use Logic(presusposses God) to deny God, and claim it was all made up out of a hat.
I don't understand why people wanna mess with his plan either. There are two types of people; those who say, "Thy will be done", and those to whom God says, "alright, have it your way."
Try to keep in mind, just want this entails.
Yup.
Now you're assuming absolute determinism.
J
Under Atheism, no good could ever come from anything because Objective Good is no more.
I'd give you the Christian case, but you didn't come here for that anyway, did you?
Argument against God's existence from unnecessary suffering | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- quick intro for you, so you know what the other side actually thinks(atleast some of us)
On atheism, why complain? There is no Objective Wrong.
As an anti-theist, of course you're going to see it as pointless. That's because you don't get the point.
For many that is an added benefit. Thats not the sole, and I would say even major reason for prayer.
Prayer is only meaningless under atheism. Also, you are putting human limitations on God, who is not human. Via.. "when he has an entire universe to look over."
I'd give you the Christian case, but you didn't come here for that anyway, did you?
Argument against God's existence from unnecessary suffering | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- quick intro for you, so you know what the other side actually thinks(atleast some of us)
On atheism, why complain? There is no Objective Wrong.
As an anti-theist, of course you're going to see it as pointless. That's because you don't get the point.
For many that is an added benefit. Thats not the sole, and I would say even major reason for prayer.
Prayer is only meaningless under atheism. Also, you are putting human limitations on God, who is not human. Via.. "when he has an entire universe to look over."
Different people have different ideas as to how exactly God works. By that I mean whether he has a plan for us already laid out and we are just doing what he said we are going to do, or if he placed us on earth with the choice of doing what is right or what is wrong. My mother had an idea which a liked a little better than the previous two: that God gave us free will and that he knows what we will chose, but he will not interfere. No matter what choices we make it is always up to us to choose the right path and he will not intervene. But if thats the case then that makes God sound malevelent. He is able to destroy evil but chooses not to? He allows the good to suffer along side evil.
J
Different people have different ideas about the existance of God, surely you wouldn't say that they're all valid, or that none can be...
Sovereignty of man vs. Sovereigntyof God, I don't get into these debates. Just because you like something, doesn't make it scripturally so. I personally like Arminianism, and I reallllllly reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllly don't like Calvinism, but have read some on the issue lately and am beginning to think scripture leans more toward Calvinism. What does this have to do with anything? I am accepting something may be true, even though I don't like it. Wish atheists would do this more often.
Without God, nothing is evil, and nothing is good. This is called Objective Morality. It requires God bud.
Sovereignty of man vs. Sovereigntyof God, I don't get into these debates. Just because you like something, doesn't make it scripturally so. I personally like Arminianism, and I reallllllly reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllly don't like Calvinism, but have read some on the issue lately and am beginning to think scripture leans more toward Calvinism. What does this have to do with anything? I am accepting something may be true, even though I don't like it. Wish atheists would do this more often.
Without God, nothing is evil, and nothing is good. This is called Objective Morality. It requires God bud.
J
Depends on what evil is. That's the problem with athiesm. Without God, nothin is evil. So you just have a bunch of pointless unredeeming suffering.
The only thing left, is to try and understand the relation between God and what occurs here on earth.
A very simple admission to make on the logical side of things, is that if God is Objectively Good, and does no wrong, allowing suffering/evil to take place may not make sense to us, but would be of Good purpose, given that God is Objectively Good.
The only thing left, is to try and understand the relation between God and what occurs here on earth.
A very simple admission to make on the logical side of things, is that if God is Objectively Good, and does no wrong, allowing suffering/evil to take place may not make sense to us, but would be of Good purpose, given that God is Objectively Good.
But why do you need god to verify what is good and bad? The feelings of man are objective and certain situations will make him feel one way or another. If it makes him feel bad he would think it is a bad thing and stay away from it. We know killing is wrong, not because God said so, but because it is wrong to take the life of another. We know it is wrong to steal, not because God said so, but because we know that we should only have the things that belong to us.
J
Objective morality Vs. Subjective
If you don't understand this, don't proclaim atheism. Atheism in it's logical conclusion is Nihilistic.
No, this is the very definition of subjective.
Thus, it is subjective.
This is incredibly circular for one.
1) Killing is wrong
2) We know it
3) killing is wrong
Now, on athiesm, what makes it wrong? Nothing! Because the logical conclusion of atheism is Nihilism, which states that there is no Obective right/wrong.
Why should you only have the things that belong to you? Where does this notion come from?
You claim to be here to bring logic and reason, but this far are taking it the other direction.
If you don't understand this, don't proclaim atheism. Atheism in it's logical conclusion is Nihilistic.
No, this is the very definition of subjective.
Thus, it is subjective.
This is incredibly circular for one.
1) Killing is wrong
2) We know it
3) killing is wrong
Now, on athiesm, what makes it wrong? Nothing! Because the logical conclusion of atheism is Nihilism, which states that there is no Obective right/wrong.
Why should you only have the things that belong to you? Where does this notion come from?
You claim to be here to bring logic and reason, but this far are taking it the other direction.