Psalms

persistent · Dec 9, 2022

Psalm 105

41 He opened the rock, and the waters gushed out; they ran in the dry places [like] a river.

42 For he remembered his holy promise, [and] Abraham his servant.

43 And he brought forth his people with joy, [and] his chosen with gladness:

44 And gave them the lands of the heathen: and they inherited the labour of the people;

45 That they might observe his statutes, and keep his laws. Praise ye the LORD.

Eli1 · Dec 9, 2022

@persistent , what do you get out of the verses that you posted in the last 3 posts?
What do you make of them?

persistent · Dec 9, 2022

Eli1 said:

Eli1, when I try reading this as posted in KJV it is beyond me. So then I went to Bible Hub and read it in NLT and whoever wrote seems to want to assure the people of God's faithfulness and it goes on to mention how God had ultimate control of the peoples of the nation He chose and guided and directed all of their ways. Seems that the lesson is, God is true and in control so don't sweat the 'small' stuff.

Cameron143 · Dec 9, 2022

persistent said:

Eli1, when I try reading this as posted in KJV it is beyond me. So then I went to Bible Hub and read it in NLT and whoever wrote seems to want to assure the people of God's faithfulness and it goes on to mention how God had ultimate control of the peoples of the nation He chose and guided and directed all of their ways. Seems that the lesson is, God is true and in control so don't sweat the 'small' stuff.

Pretty sure it's all small stuff to God.

persistent · Dec 10, 2022

Give Thanks to the Lord, for He is Good >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Psalm 106

(1 Chronicles 16:7-36; Psalm 95:1-11; Psalm 105:1-45)

1 Praise ye the LORD. O give thanks unto the LORD; for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.

2 Who can utter the mighty acts of the LORD? [who] can shew forth all his praise?

3 Blessed [are] they that keep judgment, [and] he that doeth righteousness at all times.

4 Remember me, O LORD, with the favour [that thou bearest unto] thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

6 We have sinned with our fathers, we have committed iniquity, we have done wickedly.

7 Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked [him] at the sea, [even] at the Red sea.

8 Nevertheless he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known.

9 He rebuked the Red sea also, and it was dried up: so he led them through the depths, as through the wilderness.

10 And he saved them from the hand of him that hated [them], and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.

11 And the waters covered their enemies: there was not one of them left.

12 Then believed they his words; they sang his praise.

13 They soon forgat his works; they waited not for his counsel:

14 But lusted exceedingly in the wilderness, and tempted God in the desert.

15 And he gave them their request; but sent leanness into their soul.

16 They envied Moses also in the camp, [and] Aaron the saint of the LORD.

17 The earth opened and swallowed up Dathan, and covered the company of Abiram.

18 And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked.

persistent · Dec 10, 2022

Psalm 106

19 They made a calf in Horeb, and worshipped the molten image.

20 Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass.

21 They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;

22 Wondrous works in the land of Ham, [and] terrible things by the Red sea.

23 Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy [them].

24 Yea, they despised the pleasant land, they believed not his word:

25 But murmured in their tents, [and] hearkened not unto the voice of the LORD.

26 Therefore he lifted up his hand against them, to overthrow them in the wilderness:

27 To overthrow their seed also among the nations, and to scatter them in the lands.

28 They joined themselves also unto Baalpeor, and ate the sacrifices of the dead.

29 Thus they provoked [him] to anger with their inventions: and the plague brake in upon them.

30 Then stood up Phinehas, and executed judgment: and [so] the plague was stayed.

31 And that was counted unto him for righteousness unto all generations for evermore.

32 They angered [him] also at the waters of strife, so that it went ill with Moses for their sakes:

33 Because they provoked his spirit, so that he spake unadvisedly with his lips.

34 They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:

35 But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works.

36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.

persistent · Dec 10, 2022

Psalm 106

37 Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils,

38 And shed innocent blood, [even] the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.

39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.

40 Therefore was the wrath of the LORD kindled against his people, insomuch that he abhorred his own inheritance.

41 And he gave them into the hand of the heathen; and they that hated them ruled over them.

42 Their enemies also oppressed them, and they were brought into subjection under their hand.

43 Many times did he deliver them; but they provoked [him] with their counsel, and were brought low for their iniquity.

44 Nevertheless he regarded their affliction, when he heard their cry:

45 And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.

46 He made them also to be pitied of all those that carried them captives.

47 Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, [and] to triumph in thy praise.

48 Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.

persistent · Dec 10, 2022

persistent said:

The word 'devils' used in the KJV is translated from a 'foreign' word. See at link>>>>Strong's Hebrew: 7700. שֵׁדִים (shed) -- probably demon (biblehub.com) >>>>Then if 'demons' Wiki link here>>>>Demon - Wikipedia >>>>>

The Wiki article on demon starts with>>>>>A demon is a malevolent supernatural entity

Then later in the wiki article for demon this>>>The original Ancient Greek word daimōn (δαίμων) did not carry negative connotations,[5] as it denotes a spirit or divine power

As originally recorded and possibly transcribed and understood during the centuries till made available in the Greek language, if even made available in Greek, the understanding of this verse may have been somewhat different than todays understanding. This is somewhat confusing when the possible interpretations are considered.

My analogizing on this verse would be with the situation some Afghani families are presented with today. An Afghani family today may 'sacrifice' a son or daughter to 'devils' or 'demons' in order to survive. i.e. Reports are that families of necessity sell their children in order to 'survive'. Are any Afghanis' Christian'? This same type of situation undoubtedly exists in other regions. In some cases, it is also called 'trafficking'.

Maybe this is a stretch on the verse but some people do refer to 'others' as devils. It is also likely that these types of traumatic and disturbing activities are common throughout history.

Eli1 · Dec 10, 2022

@persistent what do you make of these passages that you posted?
Whats your interpretation of them? Thank you.

persistent · Dec 10, 2022

Eli1 said:

Hey Eli 1, This Psalm 106 seems to be really involved. i.e. complex. My sense is that the main 'theme' is that the people (Israelites) are always turning away from following the 'guidance' of God offered to them. Always rebellious and discontented it seems. But, or even though, this is the nature of man, God is forever gracious. There does seem one point that God is almost intent on destroying them once again, (as in the flood). But again He doesn't. Maybe I got a bit wrong on this but seems the people are pushing God to a 'limit' if that is possible. The first few verses seem that the author recognizes great 'sincerity' with the people but then rebellion is the theme.

3 Blessed [are] they that keep judgment, [and] he that doeth righteousness at all times.

4 Remember me, O LORD, with the favour [that thou bearest unto] thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5 That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

Complex Psalm, toward the end the people are in captivity and pleading to be saved. Maybe this is a prophetic Psalm.

46 He made them also to be pitied of all those that carried them captives.

47 Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, [and] to triumph in thy praise.

48 Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.

Verse 5 where it refers to "...that I may see.....", ".....that I may rejoice......", "......that I may glory.......", who is "I" referring to?

persistent · Dec 12, 2022

KJV + Strong's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Psalm 107
His Loving Kindness Endures Forever
1 O give thanks unto the LORD, for [he is] good: for his mercy [endureth] for ever.
2 Let the redeemed of the LORD say [so], whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;
3 And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south.
4 They wandered in the wilderness in a solitary way; they found no city to dwell in.
5 Hungry and thirsty, their soul fainted in them.
6 Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, [and] he delivered them out of their distresses.
7 And he led them forth by the right way, that they might go to a city of habitation.
8 Oh that [men] would praise the LORD [for] his goodness, and [for] his wonderful works to the children of men!
9 For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.
10 Such as sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, [being] bound in affliction and iron;
11 Because they rebelled against the words of God, and contemned the counsel of the most High:
12 Therefore he brought down their heart with labour; they fell down, and [there was] none to help.
13 Then they cried unto the LORD in their trouble, [and] he saved them out of their distresses.
14 He brought them out of darkness and the shadow of death, and brake their bands in sunder.
15 Oh that [men] would praise the LORD [for] his goodness, and [for] his wonderful works to the children of men!
16 For he hath broken the gates of brass, and cut the bars of iron in sunder.

persistent · Dec 12, 2022

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Psalm 107

17 Fools because of their transgression, and because of their iniquities, are afflicted.

18 Their soul abhorreth all manner of meat; and they draw near unto the gates of death.

19 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, [and] he saveth them out of their distresses.

20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered [them] from their destructions.

21 Oh that [men] would praise the LORD [for] his goodness, and [for] his wonderful works to the children of men!

22 And let them sacrifice the sacrifices of thanksgiving, and declare his works with rejoicing.

23 They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;

24 These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.

25 For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof.

26 They mount up to the heaven, they go down again to the depths: their soul is melted because of trouble.

27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man, and are at their wits' end.

28 Then they cry unto the LORD in their trouble, and he bringeth them out of their distresses.

29 He maketh the storm a calm, so that the waves thereof are still.

30 Then are they glad because they be quiet; so he bringeth them unto their desired haven.

31 Oh that [men] would praise the LORD [for] his goodness, and [for] his wonderful works to the children of men!

persistent · Dec 12, 2022

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Psalm 107

32 Let them exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the assembly of the elders.
33 He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground;
34 A fruitful land into barrenness, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein.
35 He turneth the wilderness into a standing water, and dry ground into watersprings.
36 And there he maketh the hungry to dwell, that they may prepare a city for habitation;
37 And sow the fields, and plant vineyards, which may yield fruits of increase.
38 He blesseth them also, so that they are multiplied greatly; and suffereth not their cattle to decrease.
39 Again, they are minished and brought low through oppression, affliction, and sorrow.
40 He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, [where there is] no way.
41 Yet setteth he the poor on high from affliction, and maketh [him] families like a flock.
42 The righteous shall see [it], and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth.
43 Whoso [is] wise, and will observe these [things], even they shall understand the lovingkindness of the LORD.

King James Bible with Strong's Numbers

Eli1 · Dec 12, 2022

Very nice @persistent.

But what do you make of the psalms of lament or other psalms where David’s consciousness is weighing heavy and is asking God to kill his enemies?

persistent · Dec 12, 2022

Eli1 said:

Hi Eli1, I see you and I both, and others if they would admit, have questions about 'David's' way of seeing the world? Maybe that is only during his time that some of Psalms pertain to. Also, David's son, Solomon, in his writings seem to be applicable only to special cases. Maybe that is the same with David. We would need to use 'imagination' to place ourselves in a position of great authority and consider
the writings from that 'imagined' and 'authoritative' vantage point. Quite certain David is recognized as representing or a foreshadowing of Jesus as King. Seems that many passages of scripture change mood and time reference abruptly and require the reading to progress with contemplative meditation. One line at a time.

persistent · Dec 12, 2022

Eli1 said:

Something that always slips my mind is that Scripture is Inspired writing. Inspired would imply that past, present and future are all potentially inclusive and known in the recorded words. That will mean our reading is to be with guidance of the Holy Spirit if we want to comprehend the meaning. My sense is that some verses we will find to be applicable on a very personal level and the relevance is singularly focused to a certain event in our lives.

notmyown · Dec 12, 2022

Eli1 said:

you know, i believe David is asking God to bring His justice to bear on HIS enemies. they're David's enemies as well, because He belongs to the Lord.

the imprecatory psalms are to be prayed by God's people. we may tend to see them as unrighteous, yet they're the opposite of that.

Eli1 · Dec 12, 2022

notmyown said:

Interesting.
So if we all belong to The Lord we can ask God to kill our enemies?
Also, how does this message reconcile with the message of Jesus who says that we need to show the other cheek to our enemies and pray for our enemies?

notmyown · Dec 13, 2022

Eli1 said:

i apologize to you for being so unclear, and hope you will forgive me. allow me to try to explain?

these psalms are not just Old Testament prayers. they're quoted by the Lord Jesus, Peter, and Paul, too.
they're not emotional outbursts in a fit of anger against somebody who just cheesed you off. they're measured, thoughtful appeals to God's justice. we know God says vengeance is His, we don't take vengeance. we, as you said, love our enemies and do good to them.

but there's a theological aspect here. do we love and worship God for all of His attributes, or just the ones we like?
is God equally glorious in His wrath and justice against sin as He is in His love and mercy?

the psalmists are praying for God's glory, not their own personal revenge. they're trusting in God's timing and His decisions. praying in humility with an acute awareness of their own sin. judgement and salvation are two sides of the same coin. always. God saves His people by bringing judgement on their enemies. a classic example of this is the parting of the Red Sea for the children of Israel, and then the drowning of the Egyptians.

And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?” (Rev 6:9-10)

these are "the spirits of just men made perfect". do you think they're sinning in their appeal?

thanks for listening.

notmyown · Dec 13, 2022

Eli1 said:

in point of fact, every time we pray Thy kingdom come, we're asking for the destruction of every earthly kingdom and those who believe they're in charge of it.

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