Biblically viable or false prophecy?
- Thread starter Runningman
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nope I wouldn't post a sign like that.
Jesus had already come back c2000 years ago.
If memory serves me the JW's said such things that Jesus would return about 1914 and he didn't.
Then what happens is they have an excuse as to why it didn't happen.
It's embarrassing and detrimental.
Jesus came back and will return.
In-between we teach salvation through faith in the risen Lord.
Jesus had already come back c2000 years ago.
If memory serves me the JW's said such things that Jesus would return about 1914 and he didn't.
Then what happens is they have an excuse as to why it didn't happen.
It's embarrassing and detrimental.
Jesus came back and will return.
In-between we teach salvation through faith in the risen Lord.
-
2
- Show all
I don't pay much attention to the signs in the heavens, but the person who does is called Manchild Ministries, he has a channel on youtube and the other one is called The Return of the King.
When you are driving on the highway you might see a sign that says NYC 200 miles. I have no doubt that this sign is saying that the Day of the Lord is near, but no one to my understanding has determined how near it is.
So these brothers will point to all these signs in the heavens and show how various dreams and visions people are having are tied to them, but other than that you don't know what it means. It is very clear we are getting closer and closer to "NYC" but other than that you don't know what it means. I stick to the Bible, but since this sign is in the Bible I note that we have seen it.
I think the point of that sign was to wake up many in the watchmen community, you will find that all the "watchmen" (Christians who are trumpeting the various signs indicating that the Day of the Lord is at hand) are familiar with that sign and for many of them it was critical in waking them up.
When you are driving on the highway you might see a sign that says NYC 200 miles. I have no doubt that this sign is saying that the Day of the Lord is near, but no one to my understanding has determined how near it is.
So these brothers will point to all these signs in the heavens and show how various dreams and visions people are having are tied to them, but other than that you don't know what it means. It is very clear we are getting closer and closer to "NYC" but other than that you don't know what it means. I stick to the Bible, but since this sign is in the Bible I note that we have seen it.
I think the point of that sign was to wake up many in the watchmen community, you will find that all the "watchmen" (Christians who are trumpeting the various signs indicating that the Day of the Lord is at hand) are familiar with that sign and for many of them it was critical in waking them up.
N
Although Christ's first coming was a little less than 2000 years ago, from God's perspective, it was really only a little less than two days ago. I say this based upon what Peter said.
2Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Peter apparently had this in mind when he wrote that:
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
With this in mind, I personally believe that God worked for 6 days and then rested on the 7th day as a type, or foreshadowing, or prophetic timeclock regarding man's time on this earth. In other words, I believe that Christians will spend 6000 years, or 6 days from God's vantage point, laboring for God from the time of Adam forward, and then they will rest for 1000 years during the Millennial Reign of Christ or during the 7th day. The number 7 seems to be a number that is related to completion in the Bible, and the number 8 seems to be associated with new beginnings. If this is true, then it makes sense that the 8th day or the 8th 1000 year period of time would usher in the coming new heavens, new earth, and new Jerusalem.
If there's any truth to this, and I personally believe that there is, then it is currently the year 5783 on the Jewish calendar, if the Jewish calendar has been correctly calculated. This would mean that there are approximately 217 years remaining until Christ's return or until the end of the sixth day.
2Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Peter apparently had this in mind when he wrote that:
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
With this in mind, I personally believe that God worked for 6 days and then rested on the 7th day as a type, or foreshadowing, or prophetic timeclock regarding man's time on this earth. In other words, I believe that Christians will spend 6000 years, or 6 days from God's vantage point, laboring for God from the time of Adam forward, and then they will rest for 1000 years during the Millennial Reign of Christ or during the 7th day. The number 7 seems to be a number that is related to completion in the Bible, and the number 8 seems to be associated with new beginnings. If this is true, then it makes sense that the 8th day or the 8th 1000 year period of time would usher in the coming new heavens, new earth, and new Jerusalem.
If there's any truth to this, and I personally believe that there is, then it is currently the year 5783 on the Jewish calendar, if the Jewish calendar has been correctly calculated. This would mean that there are approximately 217 years remaining until Christ's return or until the end of the sixth day.
N
Where? Chapter and verse please. Also, how are you defining the word "imminent"? To my knowledge, it means something that is about to happen at any given moment in time. This is not what Paul taught.
2Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul warned the saints at Thessalonica to not be deceived into believing that the day of Christ was at hand, near, or imminent. He told them that two things much precede Christ's coming, and those two things are a falling away or apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin or the antichrist.
2Thessalonians 2:1
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Thessalonians 2:2
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Thessalonians 2:5
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Thessalonians 2:6
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Paul warned the saints at Thessalonica to not be deceived into believing that the day of Christ was at hand, near, or imminent. He told them that two things much precede Christ's coming, and those two things are a falling away or apostasy and the revealing of the man of sin or the antichrist.
N
And my point is that "soon" and "imminent" aren't really synonymous to God. At least not in relation to how we normally view such words from our perspective. Again, because a day with the Lord is like a thousand years, Jesus could rightly say that he was coming back soon, even if he wasn't going to return for another 2000 years, but this does not mean that his return was imminent from our perspective, unless our perspective aligns itself properly with God's perspective.
Anyway, by only telling others without this understanding of how God views time that Jesus is returning "soon", we're probably going to cause confusion, and, even worse, we might turn someone away when Jesus doesn't return "soon" according to their non-biblical understanding of that word.
Anyway, by only telling others without this understanding of how God views time that Jesus is returning "soon", we're probably going to cause confusion, and, even worse, we might turn someone away when Jesus doesn't return "soon" according to their non-biblical understanding of that word.
N
Sticking solely with the internal witness of the Bible, we can narrow down the author to 1 of only 5 possible candidates.
John 13:25
He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
John 21:20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
Whoever this disciple whom Jesus loved is, he was leaning on Jesus' breast at the last supper, and the Bible tells us that the only people present at the last supper were Jesus and his twelve disciples or apostles.
Matthew 26:20
Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Mark 14:17
And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Luke 22:14
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
There are those who insist that there were actually 15 people at the last supper, with the additional two attendees being those whom Jesus had sent to prepare for the meal. They'll go here in a failed attempt to prove their assertion:
Mark 14:13
And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
Mark 14:14
And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Mark 14:15
And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
Mark 14:16
And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Mark 14:17
And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
In other words, they'll try to convince you that these two disciples were separate from the twelve, but the Bible actually identifies these two disciples as Peter and John.
Luke 22:7
Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luke 22:8
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
At this point, we've narrowed down the possible author who leaned upon Jesus' breast at the last supper to 12 candidates, but we can narrow that list down even further.
John 21:20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
When Peter saw this disciple whom Jesus loved, there were only 8 people present at that time, and those eight people were Jesus and 7 of his disciples or apostles.
John 21:1
After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
John 21:2
There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
John 21:3
Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
John 21:4
But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
John 21:5
Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
John 21:6
And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
John 21:7
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
Out of these 7 possible candidates, which includes the sons of Zebedee or John and James, we can definitely discount Peter because the disciple whom Jesus loved is seen speaking to Peter. That brings our list of possible candidates for authorship down to 6. Depending upon when one believes the gospel in question was written, we can also rightly exclude James, John's brother, from the list of possible candidates because he was killed with the sword before the traditional timeframe of this gospel's writing.
Acts 12:1
Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Acts 12:2
And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
That would leave only John, Thomas, Nathanael, and two other unnamed disciples as possible candidates for authorship.
There is external witness in the writings of the early church fathers which plainly identifies John as the author of the 4th gospel as well.
John 13:25
He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?
John 21:20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
Whoever this disciple whom Jesus loved is, he was leaning on Jesus' breast at the last supper, and the Bible tells us that the only people present at the last supper were Jesus and his twelve disciples or apostles.
Matthew 26:20
Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
Mark 14:17
And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
Luke 22:14
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
There are those who insist that there were actually 15 people at the last supper, with the additional two attendees being those whom Jesus had sent to prepare for the meal. They'll go here in a failed attempt to prove their assertion:
Mark 14:13
And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.
Mark 14:14
And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
Mark 14:15
And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.
Mark 14:16
And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
Mark 14:17
And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.
In other words, they'll try to convince you that these two disciples were separate from the twelve, but the Bible actually identifies these two disciples as Peter and John.
Luke 22:7
Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
Luke 22:8
And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
At this point, we've narrowed down the possible author who leaned upon Jesus' breast at the last supper to 12 candidates, but we can narrow that list down even further.
John 21:20
Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
When Peter saw this disciple whom Jesus loved, there were only 8 people present at that time, and those eight people were Jesus and 7 of his disciples or apostles.
John 21:1
After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
John 21:2
There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
John 21:3
Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.
John 21:4
But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
John 21:5
Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
John 21:6
And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
John 21:7
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
Out of these 7 possible candidates, which includes the sons of Zebedee or John and James, we can definitely discount Peter because the disciple whom Jesus loved is seen speaking to Peter. That brings our list of possible candidates for authorship down to 6. Depending upon when one believes the gospel in question was written, we can also rightly exclude James, John's brother, from the list of possible candidates because he was killed with the sword before the traditional timeframe of this gospel's writing.
Acts 12:1
Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
Acts 12:2
And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
That would leave only John, Thomas, Nathanael, and two other unnamed disciples as possible candidates for authorship.
There is external witness in the writings of the early church fathers which plainly identifies John as the author of the 4th gospel as well.
N
God does say it one way, but he also defines his own terms.
2Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
If someone is ignorant of what we're told not to be ignorant of, then simply telling them that Jesus is returning "soon" could have catastrophic effects.
2Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
If someone is ignorant of what we're told not to be ignorant of, then simply telling them that Jesus is returning "soon" could have catastrophic effects.
Yeah thats exactly what she and everyone else always says. "God told me" and people say that so carelessly and sometimes the Lord is even crackin jokes with these people. Its almost like disrespect imo. Just gotta love these guys somehow lol Nothing ends a conversation better than "God told me"
I got no problem with God talking to people, my issue is that when people who aren't Christians or firm in the faith see these people say something in God's name and it never ever happens, they'll lose faith. Christians have made so many false predictions concerning the Lord's return that there is no reason the godless world should logically believe us anymore. The jig is up. Its like the boy who cried wolf, except that when Jesus DOES finally return, no one will see it coming as we have been lied to consistently. So when He returns, HE WILL catch people like a thief in the night!
I believe this is meant to go this way.
I got no problem with God talking to people, my issue is that when people who aren't Christians or firm in the faith see these people say something in God's name and it never ever happens, they'll lose faith. Christians have made so many false predictions concerning the Lord's return that there is no reason the godless world should logically believe us anymore. The jig is up. Its like the boy who cried wolf, except that when Jesus DOES finally return, no one will see it coming as we have been lied to consistently. So when He returns, HE WILL catch people like a thief in the night!
I believe this is meant to go this way.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
P
Seems that few on these threads ever bother to read any posts other than maybe the one directly before they post. Now this thread had a few ways to go and what komentaja brings up seems that the possible thing to watch for is what notonmywatch posted. Is that possible? Probably no one will pay attention to this either so why would they pay attention to any possible signs of the 2nd Advent?
-
1
- Show all