Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

[ForestGreenCook]

Is the "all men" in the following passage concerning only the so called elect, or for all men everywhere?

1 Timothy 2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The first two verses are concerning all men that are to be prayed for who are in authority that are in Ephesus. That we (the church) may lead a quiet and peaceful life.

Verse 4 - The "all men" has reference to the men in 1 Tim 1:3-7, there is a salvation (deliverance) here on earth, when babes in Christ come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Again, if you do not separate the deliverance (salvation) scriptures they will tend to teach that eternal salvation is gained by good works.

 

[brightfame52]

Context.
When Jesus said no one comes to the father but through him, no one comes unless God leads, calls them, then ''all people'' would be a reference that fits those constraints. All people whom God calls to his son.

Jesus said not all are meant to understand his parables so to come unto repentance. Therefore, Jesus tells us the truth.

When one is being drawn as in Jn 6:44 or Jn 12:32, that the newbirth and effectual call, so the ones being drawn will convert into believers, followers.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, we can trust what Jesus said about that in Matthew 24. And then there is Paul who refers to God's
elect in Romans 8. Eklektos, or eklektoi , is the Greek plural of “elect”.

Ephesians 1:4 is in line with the same thought.

Right, people think by saying Jesus Christ is Gods elect, somehow nullifies election of people, but it actually confirms the election of Grace, because, Jesus Christ was chosen as a Covenant, Surety Head, and His Body was Chosen in Him, His seed Eph 1:4, just as Adam had his seed in him in the beginning, so likewise Christ, who Adam was a figure, had His seed chosen in Him. So if one acknowledges Jesus Christ was Gods elect, to be consistent, you have to acknowledge the election of His Body. Everyone who in time comes to faith and following Christ, they had been chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

 

[brightfame52]

By your addition, elect does not mean salvation. I’m glad you’re coming around.

Im teaching what the scripture teaches. Election always results in time Salvation.

 

[Runningman]

God wills all to be saved.

WB: If God 'wills' something to happen, will it not happen? Putting it another way: when God wills something to happen, can His will be thwarted?

So, if you agree that God's will cannot be thwarted and His will is done, how can it be said - given that you also say "All will not be saved" - that God wills all to be saved?

The Bible says all will not be saved. It means that God choses to not override our free will to chose a path of destruction, though He desires salvation for all.

Luke 13
23Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

2 Peter 3
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

 

[Papermonkey]

Jesus told you the truth in John chapter 3 but you refused to believe Him. So do you know why He said some would not understand His words? Because those unbelieving hearers had already made up their minds about Christ and had rejected Him and His words.

God gives everyone multiple opportunities to repent. But once they harden their hearts God stops speaking to them. And if you harden your heart and resist the truth that God offers salvation to all mankind, God Himself will blind you to the truth. It is a very dangerous thing to call God and Christ liars.

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. .. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. (Rom 10:18-21;11:7,8)

God brought judicial blindness on unbelieving Jews because they resisted the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 13

Matthew 22:14 ]Many are called few are chosen.

John 15:16 ''...you have not chosen me, I have chosen you. ''

I think when Jesus tells his Disciples he chose them, they did not choose him, I would be remiss to make an excuse as to how that would not also apply to those whom God calls to Jesus. Because as Jesus said, no one comes to him but the father draws, calls, them. No one comes to the father but through the door, Jesus.

 

[Papermonkey]

Im teaching what the scripture teaches. Election always results in time Salvation.

Would you kindly rephrase that last sentence? I don't want to misunderstand.

 

[Papermonkey]

The Bible says all will not be saved. It means that God choses to not override our free will to chose a path of destruction, though He desires salvation for all.

Luke 13
23Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, 24“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

2 Peter 3
9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Question: Do we have the freedom to choose to accept the gospel when God tells us our natural mind cannot understand it unless his Holy Spirit intervenes?

 

[Cameron143]

Would you kindly rephrase that last sentence? I don't want to misunderstand.

I'm going to go out on a limb here but I think the word time should be deleted. Everyone knows time salvation is for super saints. The rest of us get the untimed salvation.

 

[Papermonkey]

I'm going to go out on a limb here but I think the word time should be deleted. Everyone knows time salvation is for super saints. The rest of us get the untimed salvation.

OK, 'nuther question😉: Super saints, time salvation?

 

[Cameron143]

OK, 'nuther question😉: Super saints, time salvation?

Just trying to keep the meme to the time theme. Means absolutely nothing.

 

[Runningman]

Question: Do we have the freedom to choose to accept the gospel when God tells us our natural mind cannot understand it unless his Holy Spirit intervenes?

That's why faith is required. Someone hears the gospel, they hope it's true, but don't know because they haven't experienced it. They also must strive to believe. Faith isn't something God gives us in the beginning, but He can grow it afterwards. In other words, our initial response to the gospel isn't through God's Spirit, but rather through our own choices. God responds to our faith and then gives us the Holy Spirit.

The point you're making with 1 Corinthians 2 is about something else.

The boots on the ground, the missionaries, and the preachers are going out into a world of unsaved Godless people and proclaiming the good news to them. It is their response to the good news, their exposure to the message, that allows them to have faith.

Romans 10
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Peter said they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit after they repent which involves having faith the repentance is effective to produce an intended result:

Acts 2
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
44All the believers were together and had everything in common.

Summary:
1. People decide to have faith when they hear the gospel
2. God doesn't give His Holy Spirit to those who reject Him
3. Faith is required to have the Holy Spirit
4. The Holy Spirit lives in believers

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Those people who were bitten in the wilderness were of Israel, who were God's disobedient children of promise and looked upon the fiery serpent for healing, in the same manner that the born again children of today, look to Jesus on the cross for healing.

Where in the Bible does it specifically state only Hebrew People left Egypt?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It is evident that you have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. I am just trying to direct you to the knowledge.

Your greatest stumbling block are those who have the Gift of Discernment.

You ain't fooling anyone, Adversary, to God's Holy Word!!

 

[Papermonkey]

That's why faith is required. Someone hears the gospel, they hope it's true, but don't know because they haven't experienced it. They also must strive to believe. Faith isn't something God gives us in the beginning, but He can grow it afterwards. In other words, our initial response to the gospel isn't through God's Spirit, but rather through our own choices. God responds to our faith and then gives us the Holy Spirit.

The point you're making with 1 Corinthians 2 is about something else.

The boots on the ground, the missionaries, and the preachers are going out into a world of unsaved Godless people and proclaiming the good news to them. It is their response to the good news, their exposure to the message, that allows them to have faith.

Romans 10
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Peter said they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit after they repent which involves having faith the repentance is effective to produce an intended result:

Acts 2
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
44All the believers were together and had everything in common.

Summary:
1. People decide to have faith when they hear the gospel
2. God doesn't give His Holy Spirit to those who reject Him
3. Faith is required to have the Holy Spirit
4. The Holy Spirit lives in believers

John 1:5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Why?
1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

 

[brightfame52]

Would you kindly rephrase that last sentence? I don't want to misunderstand.

What I mean, everyone who has been chosen in Christ before the foundation as per Eph 1:4 will sometime in their lifetime be quickened by the Spirit, because Christ also died for them, and when quickened from being dead in sin Eph 2:1 they will be given repentance and faith in Christ and belief of the Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation. Thats what I meant by time salvation

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Where in the Bible does it specifically state only Hebrew People left Egypt?

God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28) Jacob/Israel represents spiritual Israel which includes people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9)

It was spiritual Israel that was kept captive in Egypt.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Your greatest stumbling block are those who have the Gift of Discernment.

You ain't fooling anyone, Adversary, to God's Holy Word!!

That would be great, if you had that gift, but I am doubtful.

 

[Runningman]

John 1:5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Why?
1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

That’s referring to God.

Romans 11
34“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”

 

[Runningman]

That’s referring to God.

Romans 11
34“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”

To add onto that. We cannot have the mind of God, but we can have the mind of Christ, who was given select things to reveal to mankind:

1 Corinthians 2
16for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.