CHRISTIANS SHOULD LIVE THEIR LIVES ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEFS
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He said a lot of things, so do atheists. I don't look to them as a source of truth or of rebuke.
Ghandi was often quoted as a wise sage.
Did you know that he was a very immoral sodomite? He's the last person I would care what he thinks of Christians or of Christ. Ghandi led many people to hell and the Bible has much to say of the followers of Baal and other demons. The Bible states that people like Ghandi taught doctrines of devil's.
Ghandi was often quoted as a wise sage.
Did you know that he was a very immoral sodomite? He's the last person I would care what he thinks of Christians or of Christ. Ghandi led many people to hell and the Bible has much to say of the followers of Baal and other demons. The Bible states that people like Ghandi taught doctrines of devil's.
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We should be careful when tossing about logically deductive syllogisms... like this conditional argument.
1.) "If all Christians acted like Christ, then the whole world would be Christian."
The OP makes the mistake of using a conditional argument with an irrational premise.
(Christians will never all act like Christ because they simply cannot.)
A.) In a conditional argument like this, the consequent logically follows, necessarily, but only if the antecedent is true.
B.) However, the OP has chosen an antecedent that is 100% false... because there ARE NO Christians capable of acting as virtuously as Christ.
C.) Since there are no Christians who can act as virtuously as Christ, this argument has no premise... the whole thing falls.
* Here the OP uses an irrational antecedent, which is irrational because it is impossible.
2.) "If all Christians acted like Christ, then the whole world would be Christian."
No, the whole world would not be Christian if all Christians acted like Christ.
How can we be certain?
A.) The people who met the REAL Christ did NOT all convert.
B.) Therefore, if they did not all convert in the presence of the ACTUAL CHRIST, GOD INCARNATE, then they certainly would NOT be more repentant in the presence of ordinary men.
C.) Furthermore, we have scripture asserting clearly, that the majority of people will NOT accept Christ and make it to heaven... God clearly states it will not happen.
* Here the OP offers a consequent which cannot logically follow ANY premise, because it is already known to be impossible.
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Have a great Sunday everyone.
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Gandhi criticised as well as praised Christianity. He was critical of Christian missionary efforts in British India, because they mixed medical or education assistance with demands that the beneficiary convert to Christianity.[297] According to Gandhi, this was not true "service" but one driven by an ulterior motive of luring people into religious conversion and exploiting the economically or medically desperate.
It did not lead to inner transformation or moral advance or to the Christian teaching of "love", but was based on false one-sided criticisms of other religions, when Christian societies faced similar problems in South Africa and Europe. It led to the converted person hating his neighbours and other religions, and divided people rather than bringing them closer in compassion. According to Gandhi, "no religious tradition could claim a monopoly over truth or salvation".[297][298]
Gandhi did not support laws to prohibit missionary activity, but demanded that Christians should first understand the message of Jesus, and then strive to live without stereotyping and misrepresenting other religions. According to Gandhi, the message of Jesus was not to humiliate and imperialistically rule over other people considering them inferior or second class or slaves, but that "when the hungry are fed and peace comes to our individual and collective life, then Christ is born".[299]
Gandhi believed that his long acquaintance with Christianity had made him like it as well as find it imperfect. He asked Christians to stop humiliating his country and his people as heathens, idolators and other abusive language, and to change their negative views of India.
He believed that Christians should introspect on the "true meaning of religion" and get a desire to study and learn from Indian religions in the spirit of universal brotherhood.[299] According to Eric Sharpe – a professor of Religious Studies, though Gandhi was born in a Hindu family and later became Hindu by conviction, many Christians in time thought of him as an "exemplary Christian and even as a saint".[300]
Some colonial era Christian preachers and faithfuls considered Gandhi as a saint.[301][302][303] Biographers from France and Britain have drawn parallels between Gandhi and Christian saints. Recent scholars question these romantic biographies and state that Gandhi was neither a Christian figure nor mirrored a Christian saint.[304] Gandhi's life is better viewed as exemplifying his belief in the "convergence of various spiritualities" of a Christian and a Hindu, states Michael de Saint-Cheron.[
It did not lead to inner transformation or moral advance or to the Christian teaching of "love", but was based on false one-sided criticisms of other religions, when Christian societies faced similar problems in South Africa and Europe. It led to the converted person hating his neighbours and other religions, and divided people rather than bringing them closer in compassion. According to Gandhi, "no religious tradition could claim a monopoly over truth or salvation".[297][298]
Gandhi did not support laws to prohibit missionary activity, but demanded that Christians should first understand the message of Jesus, and then strive to live without stereotyping and misrepresenting other religions. According to Gandhi, the message of Jesus was not to humiliate and imperialistically rule over other people considering them inferior or second class or slaves, but that "when the hungry are fed and peace comes to our individual and collective life, then Christ is born".[299]
Gandhi believed that his long acquaintance with Christianity had made him like it as well as find it imperfect. He asked Christians to stop humiliating his country and his people as heathens, idolators and other abusive language, and to change their negative views of India.
He believed that Christians should introspect on the "true meaning of religion" and get a desire to study and learn from Indian religions in the spirit of universal brotherhood.[299] According to Eric Sharpe – a professor of Religious Studies, though Gandhi was born in a Hindu family and later became Hindu by conviction, many Christians in time thought of him as an "exemplary Christian and even as a saint".[300]
Some colonial era Christian preachers and faithfuls considered Gandhi as a saint.[301][302][303] Biographers from France and Britain have drawn parallels between Gandhi and Christian saints. Recent scholars question these romantic biographies and state that Gandhi was neither a Christian figure nor mirrored a Christian saint.[304] Gandhi's life is better viewed as exemplifying his belief in the "convergence of various spiritualities" of a Christian and a Hindu, states Michael de Saint-Cheron.[
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Howard Washington Thurman (November 18, 1899 – April 10, 1981) was an American author, philosopher, theologian, mystic, educator, and civil rights leader. As a prominent religious figure, he played a leading role in many social justice movements and organizations of the twentieth century.[1] Thurman's theology of radical nonviolence influenced and shaped a generation of civil rights activists, and he was a key mentor to leaders within the civil rights movement, including Martin Luther King Jr.
Thurman traveled broadly, heading Christian missions and meeting with world figures.[6] In 1935-36 he led a six-month delegation of African-Americans invited to India for meetings. At Bardoli they spoke with Mahatma Gandhi, who asked "persistent, pragmatic questions" about the Black American community and its struggles. Training for satyagraha was discussed, its difficulties in the extreme addressed. When Thurman asked Gandhi what message he should take back to the United States, Gandhi said he regretted not having made nonviolence more visible as a practice worldwide and remarked "It may be through the Negroes that the unadulterated message of nonviolence will be delivered to the world."
Thurman traveled broadly, heading Christian missions and meeting with world figures.[6] In 1935-36 he led a six-month delegation of African-Americans invited to India for meetings. At Bardoli they spoke with Mahatma Gandhi, who asked "persistent, pragmatic questions" about the Black American community and its struggles. Training for satyagraha was discussed, its difficulties in the extreme addressed. When Thurman asked Gandhi what message he should take back to the United States, Gandhi said he regretted not having made nonviolence more visible as a practice worldwide and remarked "It may be through the Negroes that the unadulterated message of nonviolence will be delivered to the world."
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On 10 August 1888, Gandhi aged 18, left Porbandar for Mumbai, then known as Bombay. Upon arrival, he stayed with the local Modh Bania community whose elders warned him that England would tempt him to compromise his religion, and eat and drink in Western ways. Despite Gandhi informing them of his promise to his mother and her blessings, he was excommunicated from his caste. Gandhi ignored this, and on 4 September, he sailed from Bombay to London, with his brother seeing him off.[40][42] Gandhi attended University College, London, a constituent college of the University of London.
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Kamala Harris - Wikipedia Link to Bio of US vice president
Matthew Poole's Commentary
Angels; good angels, Judges 1:9.
Greater; either greater than these audacious false teachers, or else greater than the forementioned dignities.
In power and might; i.e. greater in their natural strength, and in their dignity.
Bring not railing accusation; use not reviling, reproachful language; the same with speaking evil in the former verse.
Against them; either:
1. Against dignities, 2 Peter 2:10; and then the meaning is, that good angels, great and powerful as they are, yet bring not a railing accusation before the Lord against magistrates and princes, but when they have had any thing against them, yet have carried themselves with modesty, and due respect to that dignity in which God had placed such, having a regard to civil government as God’s constitution, and being themselves, at God’s appointment, guardians and keepers, even of wicked kingdoms, as Daniel 10:1-21 and Daniel 11:1-45. Or:
Matthew Poole's Commentary
Angels; good angels, Judges 1:9.
Greater; either greater than these audacious false teachers, or else greater than the forementioned dignities.
In power and might; i.e. greater in their natural strength, and in their dignity.
Bring not railing accusation; use not reviling, reproachful language; the same with speaking evil in the former verse.
Against them; either:
1. Against dignities, 2 Peter 2:10; and then the meaning is, that good angels, great and powerful as they are, yet bring not a railing accusation before the Lord against magistrates and princes, but when they have had any thing against them, yet have carried themselves with modesty, and due respect to that dignity in which God had placed such, having a regard to civil government as God’s constitution, and being themselves, at God’s appointment, guardians and keepers, even of wicked kingdoms, as Daniel 10:1-21 and Daniel 11:1-45. Or:
Ghandi was a sleaze.
Therefore, Christians really shouldn't give ANY credence to his opinions of Christianity... his own life was completely immoral.
How Christians should critique Christian Ethics:
1.) We are never told to go the lost, corrupt, hypocritical world, and ask their opinion of us, and then use that opinion to determine our ethics... the bible clearly says the world will hate us.
2.) We ARE told to go to the BIBLE, and use that, and only that, to determine and critique our ethics.
(It is true we also have a conscience, but the conscience of man can become confused, darkened, wrongly prioritized, or even corrupted... so we are to use scripture to keep our understanding clear, pristine, and correct.)
3.) WE MUST NOT GET THESE TWO MATTERS BACKWARD... we are to correct our ethics from scripture, not from the opinions of lost men.
GHANDI:
Now, if people are really determined to keep defending the immoral Ghandi... we can fill this thread to overflowing with all the data on the sleazy immoral things he did. Shall we do that? Shall we post all the data about him claiming to to be sexually abstinent while being caught with naked teenagers in his bed... over and over?
Instead of wasting our time with completely irrelevant lost hypocrites, like Ghandi, why don't we focus on the BIBLICAL critique of ethics... we should simply go to the Bible, and use that to critique our own ethics.
If we get this backward, and start with what a corrupt fallen world thinks of us... we'll never get to the truth, because the bible says they love darkness rather than light.
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The biggest issue I see which the "world" screams about is how many self proclaimed Christians say one thing but do another.
Christian talk about love but use a sword for conversions to the faith...even scriptural swords to cut each other apart.
The church pedophiles are a prime example.
Most cases of embezzlement are inside of church organizations....in which the leadership is living a lifestyle far far above the membership.
We cant say, "Gold or silver I have none, but what I do have I will give you. Arise and walk in the name of Jesus"
So....when that changes the world will shut up.
Christian talk about love but use a sword for conversions to the faith...even scriptural swords to cut each other apart.
The church pedophiles are a prime example.
Most cases of embezzlement are inside of church organizations....in which the leadership is living a lifestyle far far above the membership.
We cant say, "Gold or silver I have none, but what I do have I will give you. Arise and walk in the name of Jesus"
So....when that changes the world will shut up.
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If the church finally became perfect, would the world finally respect us?
No. It would be the opposite.
1). The lost world hates the light... so they would NOT love us more if we were more perfect, they would hate us more.
(In fact, "friendship with the world" is one of the barometers of how unbiblical a church is. Go look it up. The approval of a lost world is a sign of a church's corruption.)
Joh 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
2.) When the lost world speaks well of you, that's a sign you are corrupt.
Luk 6:26
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
3.) To be friends with the world is to be an enemy of God.
James 4:4
...know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
4.) If we live Godly lives, we aren't promised the respect of the world... we are promised persecution of the world.
2Ti 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
5. The lost world HATED Christ, and it will, therefore, HATE US, his followers.
John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Conclusion:
1. The lost world hates us, because it hates Christ, and because it hates the light.
2. We are commanded NOT to seek approval from the lost world... to do so is sin.
3. We are told that if we live Godly, we will get persecution from the world... not respect.
4. THEREFORE... WHY ON EARTH WOULD WE JUDGE OUR SUCCESS, OR FAILURE, ON THE LOST WORLD'S OPINION OF US???
5. We should use the Bible, and only the Bible, to assess ourselves... the lost world will simply hate us, no matter what we do.
Have a great week everyone... and ya know... controversies clear up as soon as we get back to the Bible.
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Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
3:1-7 Spiritual privileges do not make void or weaken, but confirm civil duties. Mere good words and good meanings are not enough without good works. They were not to be quarrelsome, but to show meekness on all occasions, not toward friends only, but to all men, though with wisdom, Jas 3:13. And let this text teach us how wrong it is for a Christian to be churlish to the worst, weakest, and most abject. The servants of sin have many masters, their lusts hurry them different ways; pride commands one thing, covetousness another. Thus they are hateful, deserving to be hated. It is the misery of sinners, that they hate one another; and it is the duty and happiness of saints to love one another. And we are delivered out of our miserable condition, only by the mercy and free grace of God, the merit and sufferings of Christ, and the working of his Spirit. God the Father is God our Saviour. He is the fountain from which the Holy Spirit flows, to teach, regenerate, and save his fallen creatures; and this blessing comes to mankind through Christ. The spring and rise of it, is the kindness and love of God to man. Love and grace have, through the Spirit, great power to change and turn the heart to God. Works must be in the saved, but are not among the causes of their salvation. A new principle of grace and holiness is wrought, which sways, and governs, and makes the man a new creature. Most pretend they would have heaven at last, yet they care not for holiness now; they would have the end without the beginning. Here is the outward sign and seal thereof in baptism, called therefore the washing of regeneration. The work is inward and spiritual; this is outwardly signified and sealed in this ordinance. Slight not this outward sign and seal; yet rest not in the outward washing, but look to the answer of a good conscience, without which the outward washing will avail nothing. The worker therein is the Spirit of God; it is the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Through him we mortify sin, perform duty, walk in God's ways; all the working of the Divine life in us, and the fruits of righteousness without, are through this blessed and holy Spirit. The Spirit and his saving gifts and graces, come through Christ, as a Saviour, whose undertaking and work are to bring to grace and glory. Justification, in the gospel sense, is the free forgiveness of a sinner; accepting him as righteous through the righteousness of Christ received by faith. God, in justifying a sinner in the way of the gospel, is gracious to him, yet just to himself and his law. As forgiveness is through a perfect righteousness, and satisfaction is made to justice by Christ, it cannot be merited by the sinner himself. Eternal life is set before us in the promise; the Spirit works faith in us, and hope of that life; faith and hope bring it near, and fill with joy in expectation of it.
3:1-7 Spiritual privileges do not make void or weaken, but confirm civil duties. Mere good words and good meanings are not enough without good works. They were not to be quarrelsome, but to show meekness on all occasions, not toward friends only, but to all men, though with wisdom, Jas 3:13. And let this text teach us how wrong it is for a Christian to be churlish to the worst, weakest, and most abject. The servants of sin have many masters, their lusts hurry them different ways; pride commands one thing, covetousness another. Thus they are hateful, deserving to be hated. It is the misery of sinners, that they hate one another; and it is the duty and happiness of saints to love one another. And we are delivered out of our miserable condition, only by the mercy and free grace of God, the merit and sufferings of Christ, and the working of his Spirit. God the Father is God our Saviour. He is the fountain from which the Holy Spirit flows, to teach, regenerate, and save his fallen creatures; and this blessing comes to mankind through Christ. The spring and rise of it, is the kindness and love of God to man. Love and grace have, through the Spirit, great power to change and turn the heart to God. Works must be in the saved, but are not among the causes of their salvation. A new principle of grace and holiness is wrought, which sways, and governs, and makes the man a new creature. Most pretend they would have heaven at last, yet they care not for holiness now; they would have the end without the beginning. Here is the outward sign and seal thereof in baptism, called therefore the washing of regeneration. The work is inward and spiritual; this is outwardly signified and sealed in this ordinance. Slight not this outward sign and seal; yet rest not in the outward washing, but look to the answer of a good conscience, without which the outward washing will avail nothing. The worker therein is the Spirit of God; it is the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Through him we mortify sin, perform duty, walk in God's ways; all the working of the Divine life in us, and the fruits of righteousness without, are through this blessed and holy Spirit. The Spirit and his saving gifts and graces, come through Christ, as a Saviour, whose undertaking and work are to bring to grace and glory. Justification, in the gospel sense, is the free forgiveness of a sinner; accepting him as righteous through the righteousness of Christ received by faith. God, in justifying a sinner in the way of the gospel, is gracious to him, yet just to himself and his law. As forgiveness is through a perfect righteousness, and satisfaction is made to justice by Christ, it cannot be merited by the sinner himself. Eternal life is set before us in the promise; the Spirit works faith in us, and hope of that life; faith and hope bring it near, and fill with joy in expectation of it.
Correct, the world hated Jesus, and therefore the world will hate us.
But... we must then take this axiom and draw the necessary conclusions.
NECESSARY CONCLUSIONS:
1.) IF the world simply hates us, then it would be foolish to ever judge ourselves by their opinions of us... they will hate us no matter what we do.
2.) IF the world simply hates us, and hates Christ, then the world isn't going to hell because we're imperfect, and we've been an imperfect example... the world is going to hell because they HATE GOD.
3.) When people make arguments that the unbelievers don't believe BECAUSE the church is imperfect... that's just nonsense. That argument does not follow from the scripture, or from the logic. People disbelieve because they hate God.
4.) The unbelieving, who hate God, will continue to do so... regardless of the state of the churches.
a.) If you're Armenian and believe in freewill, then you believe each man makes a choice, and each man receives revelation that God exists, so that each man is without excuse.... so the state of the church is irrelevant to unbelief.
b.) If you're a calvininst and believe in predetermination, then you believe men are predestined for heaven or hell... so the state of the church is irrelevant to unbelief.
* No matter how you slice it, or how you view it, the state of the church does NOT CAUSE a lost man's unbelief.
FINAL THOUGHT:
* Progressive churches:
A lot of this nonsense comes from progressive churches.
The progressive churches (which don't believe the bible) like to make "traditional christians" and "traditional churches" the scapegoat for everything wrong in the world. Progressive churches are, quite literally, the "accusers of the brethren"... and that sounds very familiar doesn't it?
* Progressive churches strive to be "friends with the world": they take up all the beliefs of the lost world, and even take up the lost world's hatred for traditional christianity.
* God makes it very clear: if you're the friend of the lost world, you are the enemy of God.
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But... we must then take this axiom and draw the necessary conclusions.
NECESSARY CONCLUSIONS:
1.) IF the world simply hates us, then it would be foolish to ever judge ourselves by their opinions of us... they will hate us no matter what we do.
2.) IF the world simply hates us, and hates Christ, then the world isn't going to hell because we're imperfect, and we've been an imperfect example... the world is going to hell because they HATE GOD.
3.) When people make arguments that the unbelievers don't believe BECAUSE the church is imperfect... that's just nonsense. That argument does not follow from the scripture, or from the logic. People disbelieve because they hate God.
4.) The unbelieving, who hate God, will continue to do so... regardless of the state of the churches.
a.) If you're Armenian and believe in freewill, then you believe each man makes a choice, and each man receives revelation that God exists, so that each man is without excuse.... so the state of the church is irrelevant to unbelief.
b.) If you're a calvininst and believe in predetermination, then you believe men are predestined for heaven or hell... so the state of the church is irrelevant to unbelief.
* No matter how you slice it, or how you view it, the state of the church does NOT CAUSE a lost man's unbelief.
FINAL THOUGHT:
* Progressive churches:
A lot of this nonsense comes from progressive churches.
The progressive churches (which don't believe the bible) like to make "traditional christians" and "traditional churches" the scapegoat for everything wrong in the world. Progressive churches are, quite literally, the "accusers of the brethren"... and that sounds very familiar doesn't it?
* Progressive churches strive to be "friends with the world": they take up all the beliefs of the lost world, and even take up the lost world's hatred for traditional christianity.
* God makes it very clear: if you're the friend of the lost world, you are the enemy of God.
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Just as an opinion with a little basis in hard fact:
God is extremely active in trying to save as many people as possible. Even when things do not seem to be going "our way".
That little known and read prophet Zephaniah details this exquisitely. It actually is the whole focus of that prophet.
We, the Christian community in America, have enjoyed relatively a nice environment for a long long time. We haven't truly been discriminated against and we don't endure any discrimination of others. (Despite the outlandish claims of race baiters)
As I've traveled this globe...I've personally witnessed discrimination of others based solely on religious beliefs or race....it isn't pretty...and eventually it is coming. Hopefully I'll be long gone before it does. Otherwise I'll have to get in a fight because of not backing down and being unreasonably stubborn.
Oh well....I'm just watching the game unfold knowing the end long before we get there.
God is extremely active in trying to save as many people as possible. Even when things do not seem to be going "our way".
That little known and read prophet Zephaniah details this exquisitely. It actually is the whole focus of that prophet.
We, the Christian community in America, have enjoyed relatively a nice environment for a long long time. We haven't truly been discriminated against and we don't endure any discrimination of others. (Despite the outlandish claims of race baiters)
As I've traveled this globe...I've personally witnessed discrimination of others based solely on religious beliefs or race....it isn't pretty...and eventually it is coming. Hopefully I'll be long gone before it does. Otherwise I'll have to get in a fight because of not backing down and being unreasonably stubborn.
Oh well....I'm just watching the game unfold knowing the end long before we get there.