Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[posthuman]

Matthew 27
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

Now go see who it is that throws the silver back in the prophecy, and why

 

[Runningman]

Do you not find it ironic that by saying this scripture must mean Judas is one of the 12 who will sit on 12 thrones with Christ, you are either saying Judas is OSAS or that Christ was mistaken about him, therefore fallible, untrustworthy & a liar?

That would be a misunderstanding of Jesus on your part. It isn’t an either/or kind of thing, i.e., you’re either saved or you aren’t. It’s that you can be saved and then lose it. There are conditions that must be met and Judas didn’t walk the strait and narrow apparently.

 

[John146]

That would be a misunderstanding of Jesus on your part. It isn’t an either/or kind of thing, i.e., you’re either saved or you aren’t. It’s that you can be saved and then lose it. There are conditions that must be met and Judas didn’t walk the strait and narrow apparently.

Only one walked the straight and narrow. His name is Jesus.

 

[cv5]

Not according to scripture. Judas repented for betraying innocent blood.

Matthew 27
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

The remorse of the unforgiven and condemned. Being guilty (rather than aquitted by being under the blood) he consequently punished himself by suicide.

 

[Runningman]

The remorse of the unforgiven and condemned. Being guilty (rather than aquitted by being under the blood) he consequently punished himself by suicide.

Of course, you wouldn’t have Judas doing anything right even though the Bible says otherwise. It’s just part of your narrative that Judas never repented when the Bible says he did.

 

[Runningman]

Only one walked the straight and narrow. His name is Jesus.

Apparently not. Jesus said “few” will find it, meaning others beside himself can do it too.

Matthew 7
13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[cv5]

Of course, you wouldn’t have Judas doing anything right even though the Bible says otherwise. It’s just part of your narrative that Judas never repented when the Bible says he did.

The prophecy concerning Judas WAS fulfilled despite your theories and pretensions. Nothing you might conjure up could in any way prove otherwise.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Must say Matthew 27:3 does present several interesting viewpoints:

 

[cv5]

Now go see who it is that throws the silver back in the prophecy, and why

It would seem that Judas is wasting his confessing to the wrong group of co-conspirators......

 

[Runningman]

The prophecy concerning Judas WAS fulfilled despite your theories and pretensions. Nothing you might conjure up could in any way prove otherwise.

Judas repented. I’ll never move from that despite your repeated attempts to gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

This word is in Matthew 27:3

G3338
μεταμέλλομαι
metamellomai
met-am-el'-lom-ahee

From G3326 and the middle of G3199; to care afterwards, that is, regret: - repent (self).

Paul said this repentance is the kind of repentance that comes from sorrow, just as God intended. Judas had it.

2 Corinthians 7
8Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

 

[cv5]

Judas repented. I’ll never move from that despite your repeated attempts to gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

This word is in Matthew 27:3

G3338
μεταμέλλομαι
metamellomai
met-am-el'-lom-ahee

From G3326 and the middle of G3199; to care afterwards, that is, regret: - repent (self).

Paul said this repentance is the kind of repentance that comes from sorrow, just as God intended. Judas had it.

2 Corinthians 7
8Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

Therefore you are saying Jesus is a liar and prophecy was broken? Ridiculous.

 

[Runningman]

Therefore you are saying Jesus is a liar and prophecy was broken? Ridiculous.

Nice straw man.

 

[wattie]

So people were born again before Jesus completed the act of atonement?

Yeah.. eternal salvation has always been faith in the Messiah. Whether to come.. or looking back at Him when He came. Job believed in a redeemer.. so did David.. among others. They weren't made righteous by their good works.. but God made them righteous by their belief in Him.

The system of service was in the Old Testament laws.. but those laws never eternally saved them. That is what the Pharisees and Scribese didn't get.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

This topic has been done to death for centuries. And it's all designed to make Christ and his work on the cross ineffectual and void.

It's very simply true. Jesus guaranteed eternal salvation through the grace of God.
And it is all from start to finish God's work,not ours.

Eternal salvation. Not a hard concept of we have a dictionary.

Those who don't believe salvation is eternal? OK.
But do they live that way? Thinking that? If so, OK.

But trying to lead others to believe their way?
Please!

Why fight?
God said it. Jesus died to seal it.

Next.

 

[Bingo]

https://christianchat.com/threads/this-side-of-the-glass.182929/post-4996762
https://christianchat.com/threads/this-side-of-the-glass.182929/post-4997694

 

[Magenta]

Therefore you are saying Jesus is a liar and prophecy was broken? Ridiculous.

Must be that Jesus was wrong to say Judas was doomed to destruction... according to what some believe.

Son of perdition is used only twice in the NT, once for Judas, and once for the Antichrist.

Perhaps those who think Judas was saved also believe the Antichrist will be also.

The man of lawlessness... the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything
that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of
displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness
deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

 

[Runningman]

Don’t be deceived by arguments or people here. Judas Iscariot was a disciple of Jesus and Jesus said that those who leave everything to follow him would inherit eternal life. Judas checks that box.

Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

Some people seem to have it in their heart that since Judas didn’t get eternal life that it makes Jesus a liar and a deceiver. I would warn against such things because such thoughts are anti-Christ.

However, I am sure this is most likely a misunderstanding from the get-go about eternal life. The point is, Judas lost his salvation and didn’t inherit eternal life because eternal life isn’t received instantaneously. None of you are immortal now, it comes later, hence Jesus said “inherit eternal life.” Eternal life comes in the age to come.

Luke 18
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Luke 20
34Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Ephesians 2
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus

1 Corinthians 15
52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

Jude 1
21keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Judas clearly lost his standing to be counted worthy of eternal life in the age to come. Let that be a warning to all of the people who thought they had eternal life now. They don’t.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you not find it ironic that by saying this scripture must mean Judas is one of the 12 who will sit on 12 thrones with Christ, you are either saying Judas is OSAS or that Christ was mistaken about him, therefore fallible, untrustworthy & a liar?

It certainly is ironic, but some people are more interested in protecting their pet doctrine at all costs than they are in accepting the truth.

Matthew 19:28 - And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. That is "descriptive" of those who are truly disciples of Jesus and is not descriptive of Judas Iscariot, who did not continue in His word (John 8:31) but instead betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:48)

Jesus did not personally, promise Judas a throne and eternal life. Judas betrayed Jesus and killed himself. Jesus does not make false promises to a devil (John 6:71) and Judas was replaced by Matthias. Acts 1:23 - So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25 to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

 

[mailmandan]

Apostle Peter debunks OSAS below. Glory to God.

2 Peter 2
20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature and have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

 

[Runningman]

Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature and have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.

Peter said they were worse of than they were at the beginning. At the beginning, they were unrepentant sinners destined to death and destruction in the lake of fire, but they had a chance at salvation. To be worse off than this is to mean that their doom is more or less a foregone conclusion if not highly likely.

Peter is talking about people such as Judas Iscariot who lost their salvation after at one point obtaining it.

2 Peter 2:20-22 is in the same vein as the below passage:

Hebrews 6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. 7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.