Do you observe the Sabbath?
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Are "those that change God's grace into a license to sin" necessarily from the group that profess God's grace or of those who profess works? as the chapter context of Jude 1 concludes with the exhortation, "keep yourselves in the love of God as you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life (Jude 1:21)."?
Jude continues in v.22 saying, "And indeed, have mercy on those who doubt;"
and follows with v.24's assurance, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling [sure-footed] and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—" That speaks of an unshakeable faith in Christ.
Who is, v.25, "...the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority through Jesus Christ our Lord before all time, and now, and for all eternity.
Amen."
Jude continues in v.22 saying, "And indeed, have mercy on those who doubt;"
and follows with v.24's assurance, "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling [sure-footed] and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—" That speaks of an unshakeable faith in Christ.
Who is, v.25, "...the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority through Jesus Christ our Lord before all time, and now, and for all eternity.
Amen."
Those who are changing God’s grace into a license to sin would be those who are sinning and believing they have God’s grace to fall back on. Jude is refuting that.
Jude says, “4For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.”
Their condemnation was written about long ago like the Judas who was doomed to destruction per prophecy.
They secretly slipped in among “you” as he was speaking to a congregation of saints. Slipping in secretly, Jude is saying they are dishonest and cunning. These people claiming to be able to sin while being covered by grace aren’t welcome.
This is likely a prophecy of the modern church. OSAS, easy believism, and free grace is everywhere.
What do you think of the modern church? Is it holy and righteous?
Jude says, “4For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.”
Their condemnation was written about long ago like the Judas who was doomed to destruction per prophecy.
They secretly slipped in among “you” as he was speaking to a congregation of saints. Slipping in secretly, Jude is saying they are dishonest and cunning. These people claiming to be able to sin while being covered by grace aren’t welcome.
This is likely a prophecy of the modern church. OSAS, easy believism, and free grace is everywhere.
What do you think of the modern church? Is it holy and righteous?
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Those who are changing God's grace into a license to sin distort God's grace as the only means of salvation as if it were somehow used an excuse for those who profess grace to sin, and I use the grammar "as if it were" where it is evident that it is not. On the other hand, it seems that works salvation says one can be excused of their sin if he regrets it as if grace proponents are not grieved by their sin. Yet, blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted, and blessed are the pure in heart for they will see God.
interesting interpretation.
Let me ask you plainly to see if I can get to the bottom of what you believe. Do you believe a born again Christian can chose to abandon the faith with every fiber of his/her being, pledge allegiance to the devil for all eternity, and devote their life to the express purpose of sin, then appear in heaven with a welcome fit for a child of God?
You don’t have to answer it if you don’t want, but hyper grace adherents believe there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. This spawns the logical conclusion that if people have God’s grace then sin is irrelevant. Paul refuted it in Romans.
Let me ask you plainly to see if I can get to the bottom of what you believe. Do you believe a born again Christian can chose to abandon the faith with every fiber of his/her being, pledge allegiance to the devil for all eternity, and devote their life to the express purpose of sin, then appear in heaven with a welcome fit for a child of God?
You don’t have to answer it if you don’t want, but hyper grace adherents believe there is nothing you can do to lose salvation. This spawns the logical conclusion that if people have God’s grace then sin is irrelevant. Paul refuted it in Romans.
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Hello.
You said, "Salavation is by the grace of God, provided you are trying to not sin, are repentant, and have faith."
No one is in denial of salvation by grace. There are far too many verses that say that.
The problem is that churches and people get confused easily. And have done all the way through church history.
Jesus is the reason that we are saved. Whether you are an obedient Christian or not. Forgiveness of sins is the tap we all drink from.
Only Jesus provided the water supply for that tap. Saved by grace through faith is the saving mechanism, the water from the tap.
Now of course it follows on from salvation by grace, that we need to walk the walk. But we never blaspheme and say, we must do this or that to be saved. Because salvation is always by the grace of God.
The confusion, the error occurs, when people say, we are saved by grace and works.
Romans 3:24
Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.
You said, "Salavation is by the grace of God, provided you are trying to not sin, are repentant, and have faith."
No one is in denial of salvation by grace. There are far too many verses that say that.
The problem is that churches and people get confused easily. And have done all the way through church history.
Jesus is the reason that we are saved. Whether you are an obedient Christian or not. Forgiveness of sins is the tap we all drink from.
Only Jesus provided the water supply for that tap. Saved by grace through faith is the saving mechanism, the water from the tap.
Now of course it follows on from salvation by grace, that we need to walk the walk. But we never blaspheme and say, we must do this or that to be saved. Because salvation is always by the grace of God.
The confusion, the error occurs, when people say, we are saved by grace and works.
Romans 3:24
Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.
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Not wanting any part of this conversation other than to say that one who believes in grace alone is also depending on that same grace to keep them in a state of perseverance. Thus, someone who appeared to be under grace but turned away would be seen as someone who had a form of godliness but without its power. Their profession, though at first was seemingly real and true, was not. They, in a sense, made a profession without true possession. The evidence for this is seen by the very fact that they turned away.
The parable of the sower tells of this type of person.
It shouldn't be a surprise that in our time so many are this way. A gospel message is delivered and those who listened are invited to approach an altar, given a few verses, and then pray a sinners prayer. Viola! They are told they are a Christian. I'm not saying that some aren't saved this way. Undoubtedly some are. But the aforementioned experience can be done by the Holy Spirit or simply by men.
So how can you tell the difference? You can't at first. Wheat and tares grow together. But over time, the true Christian will exhibit the fruit of Christ in them...the fruit of the Spirit.
Many make the mistake that if someone is busy in the service of God that that kind of person must certainly be saved. But Jesus said otherwise in Matthew 7:21-23...Many will say to me Lord, Lord...and yet they were sent away. If you look at their religious resumes, they put most Christians to shame. They had prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles. I'm sure their peers thought them shoe ins for heaven. But they were turned away. Why? Because Jesus didn't KNOW them. According to John 17:3...eternal life is knowing Him.
If you made it this far...kudos. I never intended to write this much. But I do hope at least someone who has read and was trusting in what they have done will prayerfully consider what it is to truly know God and Jesus. And perhaps, as one makes their calling and election sure, they look not to what they have done, but what Christ has wrought in you.
The parable of the sower tells of this type of person.
It shouldn't be a surprise that in our time so many are this way. A gospel message is delivered and those who listened are invited to approach an altar, given a few verses, and then pray a sinners prayer. Viola! They are told they are a Christian. I'm not saying that some aren't saved this way. Undoubtedly some are. But the aforementioned experience can be done by the Holy Spirit or simply by men.
So how can you tell the difference? You can't at first. Wheat and tares grow together. But over time, the true Christian will exhibit the fruit of Christ in them...the fruit of the Spirit.
Many make the mistake that if someone is busy in the service of God that that kind of person must certainly be saved. But Jesus said otherwise in Matthew 7:21-23...Many will say to me Lord, Lord...and yet they were sent away. If you look at their religious resumes, they put most Christians to shame. They had prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles. I'm sure their peers thought them shoe ins for heaven. But they were turned away. Why? Because Jesus didn't KNOW them. According to John 17:3...eternal life is knowing Him.
If you made it this far...kudos. I never intended to write this much. But I do hope at least someone who has read and was trusting in what they have done will prayerfully consider what it is to truly know God and Jesus. And perhaps, as one makes their calling and election sure, they look not to what they have done, but what Christ has wrought in you.
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Romans 4:16
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
We are always saved by grace through faith.
Our Christian behavior cannot alter the gift itself.
Whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian, salvation itself is always in the form of a gift given to us.
Once again, the primary doctrine of Christianity.
Romans 5:2
Through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.
Are your deeds good or bad?
Does not alter how salvation by grace is offered as a gift, as the foundation doctrine of Christianity.
For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.
We are always saved by grace through faith.
Our Christian behavior cannot alter the gift itself.
Whether you are a good Christian or a bad Christian, salvation itself is always in the form of a gift given to us.
Once again, the primary doctrine of Christianity.
Romans 5:2
Through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God.
Are your deeds good or bad?
Does not alter how salvation by grace is offered as a gift, as the foundation doctrine of Christianity.
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I for sure read it all. I’ve enjoyed reading Christian commentary for a long time and have a general interest in what people think, believe, and why. Thanks for replying. One thing I’m not certain about is that all apostates were never genuine converts to begin with. Is that surely true? I don’t know.
I’m going through a difficult time in my life right now. I won’t go into details, but I’m hanging on by a thread financially. As I was hanging my head low and my thoughts wondered about, wondering how I would eat, and much more, I heard someone tell me “don’t lose faith.” That’s all I needed to hear to renew my strength.
But what happens to those who aren’t thrown a lifeline or can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel?
I’m going through a difficult time in my life right now. I won’t go into details, but I’m hanging on by a thread financially. As I was hanging my head low and my thoughts wondered about, wondering how I would eat, and much more, I heard someone tell me “don’t lose faith.” That’s all I needed to hear to renew my strength.
But what happens to those who aren’t thrown a lifeline or can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel?
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I appreciate you sharing your troubles that I might better pray for you. I have always enjoyed our exchanges because, although we often differ in our understanding, our discourse has always remained pleasant. And I see in your posts a sincere desire to please God in all you do.
I'm not sure where you are but there should be some local agencies, churches, and food banks to help in your time of need.
I was encouraged by your story of your own encouragement. God always takes care of his own. And He will with you also. I will be praying and if you know of anything else I can do, just message me.
PS...I actually look forward to hearing how Jesus provides help to you. Interestingly enough, this is actually part of knowing Him I was referring to.
Also, the only real lifeline is Jesus. And He is available to all...if you seek for Me...you will surely find Me...
I'm not sure where you are but there should be some local agencies, churches, and food banks to help in your time of need.
I was encouraged by your story of your own encouragement. God always takes care of his own. And He will with you also. I will be praying and if you know of anything else I can do, just message me.
PS...I actually look forward to hearing how Jesus provides help to you. Interestingly enough, this is actually part of knowing Him I was referring to.
Also, the only real lifeline is Jesus. And He is available to all...if you seek for Me...you will surely find Me...
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Yes they are distinct and faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.
All genuine believers/those with authentic faith in Christ are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)
Who said that keeping the sabbath day is a moral law that must be obeyed by the body of Christ under the new covenant? Paul did not say that in Colossians 2:16-17. How would my fruits be different by ignoring Colossians 2:16-17, then setting out to only keep part of the 4th commandment by resting on Saturday and ignoring the other rules and regulations that go along with keeping the sabbath day for the Israelites under the old covenant of law? I don't see that as a moral law, yet I see the moral aspect of the other nine commandments reiterated in the New Testament for Christians.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Exodus 31:16-17 and Deuteronomy 5:15 were not clear enough for you?
What did the sabbath point to and what has changed from the old covenant to the new covenant? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Nobody is arguing against God blessing the seventh day in Genesis 2:3 and making it holy, yet the sabbath day is still a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. You don't seem to place as much emphasis on Christ (the substance) as you do the sabbath day (the shadow) and you still seem to have one foot in the old covenant plantation of law.
All genuine believers/those with authentic faith in Christ are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23)
Who said that keeping the sabbath day is a moral law that must be obeyed by the body of Christ under the new covenant? Paul did not say that in Colossians 2:16-17. How would my fruits be different by ignoring Colossians 2:16-17, then setting out to only keep part of the 4th commandment by resting on Saturday and ignoring the other rules and regulations that go along with keeping the sabbath day for the Israelites under the old covenant of law? I don't see that as a moral law, yet I see the moral aspect of the other nine commandments reiterated in the New Testament for Christians.
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Exodus 31:16-17 and Deuteronomy 5:15 were not clear enough for you?
What did the sabbath point to and what has changed from the old covenant to the new covenant? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Nobody is arguing against God blessing the seventh day in Genesis 2:3 and making it holy, yet the sabbath day is still a shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. You don't seem to place as much emphasis on Christ (the substance) as you do the sabbath day (the shadow) and you still seem to have one foot in the old covenant plantation of law.
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I hear works-salvationists use that term a lot.
The devil believes in the existence of Jesus and in all the historical facts about Jesus, yet the devil does not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and is not saved. (Acts 16:31) Big difference! The devil does not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
The right kind of belief is enough. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16 etc..).
True faith results in producing works (James 2:14-18) and faith works by love. (Galatians 5:6)
Exactly! (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)
Don't leave out verse 15. In context, Jesus mentions false prophets. The will of the Father for receiving eternal life is found in John 6:40. Jesus clearly contrasts a good tree with a bad tree and these many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved.
"Profess" is the key word here. Just as in James 2:14, "says/claims" to have faith, but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith.
The devil believes in the existence of Jesus and in all the historical facts about Jesus, yet the devil does not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and is not saved. (Acts 16:31) Big difference! The devil does not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
The right kind of belief is enough. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16 etc..).
True faith results in producing works (James 2:14-18) and faith works by love. (Galatians 5:6)
Exactly! (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24)
Don't leave out verse 15. In context, Jesus mentions false prophets. The will of the Father for receiving eternal life is found in John 6:40. Jesus clearly contrasts a good tree with a bad tree and these many people in Matthew 7:22 had the wrong foundation. They were trusting in works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved.
"Profess" is the key word here. Just as in James 2:14, "says/claims" to have faith, but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith.
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I believe that once a person is born from above, he will or cannot become unborn again so, how, or when, does one become born again? The moment he receives Jesus as his Lord and Savior which subsumes receiving Holy Spirit as his Comforter and the Father as his Abba. and that is knowing the Lord entirely. Otherwise, he is merely attempting to sustain an illusion of knowing, and illusions are not real, by definition, and so are unstainable for any lengthy period of time before they begin to dissipate.