Who or what is the arbiter of truth?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#21
Who is the arbiter who of truth?
Or
What is the rule of faith?
Or
The source of faith and truth?
thanks
Are you asserting (inadvertently perhaps) that all three are essentially the same thing? I would have to disagree.

God Himself is Truth, and is therefore the Arbiter of truth.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rule of faith" so I won't speculate on the correct answer.

The source of faith and truth? The word of God, the Bible.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#22
... (His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
The Bible says nothing about Mary being a virgin forever. It strongly implies that she was not.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!.
In John 3, Jesus speaks directly of being "born again" but says nothing to Nicodemus about baptism. "Born of water" is natural childbirth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,160
29,463
113
#23
His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11
Mary's intercession had nothing to do with the disciples of Jesus believing.

Her intercession in John 2:11 was in relation to Jesus making sure the wedding guests were not deprived of wine.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,219
2,523
113
#25
I reject this pride based private judgment in favor of divine revelation, Christ is the truth Jn 14:6 and he founded a church Matt 16:18 to teach and sanctify all men Matt 28:19 without error Jn 16:13 by his apostles and their successors, we are not the arbiter of truth but must be taught
Lk 1:4
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21
Acts 8:31
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

Thanks
What a bunch of junk that has no basis in anything but churchspeak nonsense designed solely for self engrandizing oneself inside the church community.

How about saying something a bit more humble that those on the outside looking in might understand and believe eh?
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#26
Are you asserting (inadvertently perhaps) that all three are essentially the same thing? I would have to disagree.

God Himself is Truth, and is therefore the Arbiter of truth.

I'm not sure what you mean by "rule of faith" so I won't speculate on the correct answer.

The source of faith and truth? The word of God, the Bible.
Christ and His church are the rule of faith or source of truth for all those baptized members of Christ:

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?
thanks
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#27
What’s the context of truth pray tell?

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
What about mark 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21?
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#28
More info thanks

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#29
Christ and His church are the rule of faith or source of truth for all those baptized members of Christ:

How do you know what is and what is not scripture?
thanks
Are you a Catholic? It certainly sounds like it. Your assertions are in line with Catholic heresies.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,219
2,523
113
#30
Are you a Catholic? It certainly sounds like it. Your assertions are in line with Catholic heresies.
Catholicism is extremely fractured anymore since the last three popes.
Many Catholics claim Peter's Chair is empty at the moment and has been. The theologies are wide ranging anymore.
They are becoming just like Protestants.
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#31
The Bible says nothing about Mary being a virgin forever. It strongly implies that she was not.

Lk 1:34

In John 3, Jesus speaks directly of being "born again" but says nothing to Nicodemus about baptism. "Born of water" is natural childbirth.
Yes that’s true but we are required to be born again by water and the spirit Jn 3:5

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
Thanks
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#32
Mary's intercession had nothing to do with the disciples of Jesus believing.

Her intercession in John 2:11 was in relation to Jesus making sure the wedding guests were not deprived of wine.
It was Mary who’s request Jesus was responding to:
Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.


Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!

Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers!

Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!

and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments

you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”

“My hour has not come”

The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2

and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11

There is another point that Jesus is making when he says: what does it have to do with you and me? My hour hath not yet come. Indicating that when it does come Mary will have a prominent role to play. See Lk 2:35
Thanks
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#33
Not sure what you mean ...can you elaborate a bit more.
Christ completely reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant Christian church in His own blood. Heb 9:10 so the new covenant has many similarities to the old covenant:


Nature, structure, requirements:

Both have a Temple:
Altar:
Ark of the covenant
Triple Priesthood: high priesthood, ministerial priesthood, common priesthood.
Sacrifice:
Sacraments:
Eternal flame:
Golden sensor with sweet smelling incense:

Both are the ark of salvation:

Initiation:
Mosaic: Circumcision
Christian: Faith and baptism

The new covenant priesthood:

High priesthood: “Jesus Christ”
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain”
Mk 3:14
Jn 15:16
Jn 20:23
acts 1:15-26
acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
Rom 15:16
1 cor 9:14
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 2:7
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9
Thanks
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,160
29,463
113
#34
Jan 4, 2023
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#35
What a bunch of junk that has no basis in anything but churchspeak nonsense designed solely for self engrandizing oneself inside the church community.

How about saying something a bit more humble that those on the outside looking in might understand and believe eh?
I take off my humble hat to you!
I myself am nothing, not a leader at all and not the brightest bulb in the box either, but:

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13)

Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Christ established the sacraments as the primary means of grace!

Sacramental life: Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Jn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Christ founded the church for the salvation of souls!
Teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Matt 28:19

Jesus Christ “did not” establish a church and send the Holy Spirit to cos spiritual blindness, anarchy, and chaos!
Protestants have changed the spirit of truth into a spirit of error, and the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church the bride of Christ into a harlot of 30,000 sects
thanks
 
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#36
Are you a Catholic? It certainly sounds like it. Your assertions are in line with Catholic heresies.
Yes
Why do think they are heresy and not those of the late 16th century?
Thanks
 
Jan 4, 2023
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#37
That's what I said...


We have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
That’s true but it does not mean we cannot pray for one another and intercede as the verse Says 1 Tim 2:1

We are in Christ and Christ was in Mary the mother of our salvation, and
Mother of God: Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception: Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 rev 12:1
Assumption into heaven: rev 12:1
Ever virgin: Lk 1:34

Thanks
 
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#38
1st we don’t pray to saints, our prayers are directed to God (who alone can hear and answer prayer) thru the intercession of the saints rev 5:8 with the ministering angels. Heb 1:14


Jesus Christ is the Head of the church Eph 5:23 the only mediator 1 Tim 2:5 and chief intercessor, makes intercession for the saints! (The church) Rom 8:26-27 8:34 heb 7:25

The saints also make intercession!

1 Timothy 2:1
I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

James 5:16 …The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
 
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#39
All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

Found our Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

By Mary’s intercession Christ is presented to be worshipped by the angels, shepherds, and the kings at the stable! Cos Mary found the grace of our salvation! Lk 1:30

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mary found this grace! Lk 1:30
Mary believed for us! Lk 1:45
Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Will you obey God and say “Hail Mary”? Lk 1:28 Lk 1:48

Good enough for Angels!
Good enough for the Bible!
Good enough for me!

Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,
Lk 1:28 blessed is the fruit of thy womb, (Jesus) Lk 1:42 Holy Mary, mother of God, Lk 1:43 pray for us sinners, now,
rev 5:8 and at the hour of our death, Matt 24:13 amen!

It is really God who greeting Mary with the “Hail Mary”!
Lk 1:26 & Lk 1:45
(And asking for her consent to our salvation as Eve consented to our fall)
Thanks