Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[seed_time_harvest]

No amount of following, or works will ever save anyone and because of this no amount of non works or lack of following will ever revoke the gift.

God is not indebted to us for our work.


Here plain English:

Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Romans 4:4-5

I thought about the book and chapter and verses

Luke 10:38-42

King James Version

38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:

42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

No, but I'm not talking about His intent, I'm talking about man having free will. I believe God calls to an individual until the day they die. But God can love you all the way to hell. You can make that choice.




I have friends that believe OSAS to different degrees. This is what I find so of amusing. They would say if a person who was saved walks away from the truth, they were never saved in the first place. I would say that that person is backslidden, aren't they both in the same state? Sometimes it seems to me in this debate we are saying the same thing in a different way. But with these friends I have never lost fellowship, called each other names or questioned each others salvation. I'm not seeing the same here from some people, that's sad.

Make no mistake, anyone in a Christian discussion forum who repeatedly contradicts the true gospel Christ sealed with his blood is not questioning the member Christians salvation! They're denying it exists as Christ described and affirmed eternal on the cross!

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I'll add, you claimed to know of a preacher. Happy?

My post stands. You don't know of a preacher. Because an actual preacher doesn't believe that.

Lastly, it's your claim! You do your due diligence and prove your claim. Giving a reference to where others can find the claim isn't how it works.

No,I did not make any claim of knowing the person. You're the one making the claim that the quote is false. It's up to you to prove it wasn't said or it was false.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Make no mistake, anyone in a Christian discussion forum who repeatedly contradicts the true gospel Christ sealed with his blood is not questioning the member Christians salvation! They're denying it exists as Christ described and affirmed eternal on the cross!

???

 

[Cameron143]

No, but I'm not talking about His intent, I'm talking about man having free will. I believe God calls to an individual until the day they die. But God can love you all the way to hell. You can make that choice.




I have friends that believe OSAS to different degrees. This is what I find so of amusing. They would say if a person who was saved walks away from the truth, they were never saved in the first place. I would say that that person is backslidden, aren't they both in the same state? Sometimes it seems to me in this debate we are saying the same thing in a different way. But with these friends I have never lost fellowship, called each other names or questioned each others salvation. I'm not seeing the same here from some people, that's sad.

I'm not sure of people's eternal estates. I cannot see their hearts and anyone's behavior in any given point in time may or may not be reflective of what is to be exemplied by one who walks in grace. But I do know what the scripture says of the faithfulness of God and what being truly loved by God entails.
As long as the wheat grows alongside the tares, we will never be sure of others. But 1 John 5:13 says we can be sure of ourselves and we should all pay heed to the admonition to examine ourselves to see that we are indeed in the faith.
Why even give such admonition if it were not in us to be able to know?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Make no mistake, anyone in a Christian discussion forum who repeatedly contradicts the true gospel Christ sealed with his blood is not questioning the member Christians salvation! They're denying it exists as Christ described and affirmed eternal on the cross!

I don’t believe anyone questions what JESUS said,they question the Interpretation of that person’s Interpretation of what JESUS said.

 

[Magenta]

I'm talking about man having free will.

At what point does one pass from being a slave to sin?

 

[Cameron143]

I don’t believe anyone questions what JESUS said,they question the Interpretation of that person’s Interpretation of what JESUS said.

I question you questioning them questioning.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Quote "A preacher of OSAS once said... Both times I gave the same comment. Where did I claim to know him?

A preacher of OSAS once said

Point out where I said I knew him, I'll wait.

Bill Foster, The Weekly Worker, March 12, 1959

I named where the quote is found. No where did I claim I knew them. So again, do not put words in my mouth that I did not say.





No, it doesn't. What you're saying is untrue. I did not claim to know the person. Twice I have said that and you are insisting on a false claim.





You said no pastor would say that, I gave you the quote and the name of the person that reportedly said it. It's on you to prove it wasn't said, as per your claim.

You misrepresent the truth of my post.

I said no pastor on earth would ever say that.
While someone who is a fake and claims to be a pastor would.
And that remains a fact.

You introduced the hearsay regarding a supposed pastor said.....

You have to prove your claim. Telling us where their supposed words can be found thinking we have to then seek out proof of your claim isn't how it works and doesn't suffice.

 

[Magenta]

Cute small white dog

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

I don’t believe anyone questions what JESUS said,they question the Interpretation of that person’s Interpretation of what JESUS said.

When they claim Jesus never taught eternal salvation, they're making claims against what Jesus said.

Have you noticed though that as they deny the gospel, they never [oint out those scriptures where everything that occurs in our rebirth in Christ are revoked one at a time by God when we choose to no longer be saved?

 

[Magenta]

John 10:27-28

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, I did provide Scripture. Must I do it again? It seems so. We all agree on this point, nothing externally can separate us from God, but we can walk away from salvation.

Think about what you just said

Nothing can seperate us

But we can.

That is a contradiction. I pray you see this major contradiction you have imposed. if we can seperate us from the love of God. then when the bible says nothing can. it is in error

“Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:38-39).”

We are not of them. we are the true children of God.. They are people who are not true children.. They may have walked with us. and fellowshiped with us. But they were nto Gods children

20 For if after they whave escaped the apollutions of the world bthrough the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again centangled therein, and overcome, dthe latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For eit had been better for them not fto have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, gto turn from hthe holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true iproverb, kThe dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her lwallowing in the mire.

What happens when a person starts to fellowship with Gods people. and are exposed to the bible? They escape the pollusions of the world..

Now if they do not actually repent and come to christ. They will never be saved,, and in the end, it will be worse for them. why? Because they had the truth in their hands, and because of pride did not act on it

Philippians says "
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Work out your salvation. They are already saved. Paul is telling them to take the salvation you have and work it out use it.. As we are lights who shine.. Paul worried every day he would do something that would make him unqualified to teach. people call him a hypocrite. that is the fear. Paul never feared loss of salvation. He said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

aStand fast therefore in bthe liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with cthe yoke dof bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that eif ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, fthat he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 gChrist is hbecome of no effect unto you, gwhosoever of you are justified by the law; iye are fallen from grace.

Why would a person go back to the law UNLESS their true faith was in the law? Can one be saved by the law??

Peter says "
17 Ye therefore, beloved, useeing ye know these things before, vbeware lest ye also, being led away with the error of wthe wicked, xfall from your own stedfastness.

I worry about this. Not about losing salvation thought. Nothing can seperate me, not even myself.

But I keep control of my body, and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Unqualified to preach. Not unqualified to earn salvation. YOU CAN'T EARN SALVATION...

Col. says
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

yep. is your faith real. or is it mere belief? are you part of us. or will you walk away provin gyou were never of us (1 john 3)

James “Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.”

yea. I try to turn sinners away

A child of God is not a sinner.. Or did you not know that?


need to cut this into two. as it is too long

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I believe once you are saved you're always saved IF you remain in Him.

Then you do not believe in eternal security or eternal life. You believe in conditional life. Why do you think you can meet the standard and save yourself?

3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

this is about bearing fruit. not being saved,,, Learn the difference please. A child can bear fruit. a non child can not.

Not every child will bear much fruit.. sadly. some will no9t produce much at all. but they are still children.

Romans 11 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive
tree!

context is jews vs gentiles.. Paul is warnin the gentiles. just as the jews were cut off. the gentiles cna be cut off also. It is not talking about individuals.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers,1 oif anyone is caught in any transgression, pyou who are spiritual should restore him in qa spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

be tempted of what Sin?

Are we under law or under grace??

if sin can separate us we are under law. and no one will get to heaven

Remain, stand, hold fast, continue. You cannot ignore these verses. OSAS is only true in the sense that not external force can keep you from the love of God. That does not mean you cannot walk away from salvation.

Your right, I can't ignore them./ But I can translate them correctly. and not cause the word of God to contradict.

You want to earn your way to heaven. Good luck with that

As for me. I will keep my eye on Christ. knowing I do not deserve his love, and never will

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Cute small white dog

Is that your dog
?

 

[Magenta]

Is that your dog
?

If I had a dog, I might get one like that Maybe with a bit of Poodle mixed in

 

[Magenta]

I will keep my eye on Christ. knowing I do not deserve his love, and never will

Chris Tomlin - How Great Is Our God (Live In Nashville 2022)

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

Then you do not believe in eternal security or eternal life. You believe in conditional life. Why do you think you can meet the standard and save yourself?

this is about bearing fruit. not being saved,,, Learn the difference please. A child can bear fruit. a non child can not.

Not every child will bear much fruit.. sadly. some will no9t produce much at all. but they are still children.


context is jews vs gentiles.. Paul is warnin the gentiles. just as the jews were cut off. the gentiles cna be cut off also. It is not talking about individuals.

be tempted of what Sin?

Are we under law or under grace??

if sin can separate us we are under law. and no one will get to heaven


Your right, I can't ignore them./ But I can translate them correctly. and not cause the word of God to contradict.

You want to earn your way to heaven. Good luck with that

As for me. I will keep my eye on Christ. knowing I do not deserve his love, and never will

Those who deny Christ's gospel and instead live their own worldly works based ideology can still be of service. They'll do good deeds for others thinking that affords a running tally that at the end of their life adds up to their being allowed into heaven for a little while.
That would be a time limit afforded those who also insist the soul isn't eternal.
What happens to them after that soul expiration date? Who cares.

Meanwhile here on earth people will benefit from the laborers who work to achieve heaven.
That's a good thing that will come from a false doctrine.

See? God uses all things for the glory of his truth. Even false teachers who deny his will and gospel word.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

If I had a dog, I might get one like that Maybe with a bit of Poodle mixed in

Is that a Spitz?
I adore the poodle mix breeds.

 

[HeIsHere]

The people I usually see promoting this are the nay sayers.

To whom do you refer?

The nay sayers yes, but it is also used as an argument for eternal security and I do not see it in scripture.

We are eternally secure because God says so.

If people fall away, they fall away, it does not mean they are not still saved, or they had mere belief, we cannot know this to be true one way or another.

We do know God is true to His word, those that are His, He keeps even if they cannot show it to the outside world for whatever reason.

Can we with certainty state this is mere belief or the lack of discipleship? A new life started.

Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, but when the sun rose they were scorched.