Eternal life

[notonmywatch]

This thread is about eternal life. Is it now, in the age to come, or both?

1 John 5

9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Eternal life is in God's Son, Jesus Christ.

If we remain in Christ, then we have eternal life.

If we depart from Christ, then we don't.

It seems pretty simple to me.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

none of the possibilities you gave fit

Jesus tells us when we get it

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The problem is to many people see eternal life as some religious word. or doctrine. when it is more than that

eternal - forever. never ending.
life - spiritual life

the term means one will live forever. they will never perish. it is given the moment one comes to true saving faith. as Jesus promised. from that point only. they will never die.. It happens at the moment we are born again. not of corruptible seed (which can be lost) but of incorruptible seed (which can not die)

when will people stop trying to earn their salvation?

Given the vocal unbelievers in the world who make a hobby of confounding the faith of Christians? Not any time soon.

 

[Runningman]

You quoted from the Bible from the 5 choices? Are they all correct?

No my friend. You left the correct choice out. So I can;t vote

What’s the correct choice?

 

[Runningman]

Given the vocal unbelievers in the world who make a hobby of confounding the faith of Christians? Not any time soon.

The church, with its thousands of warring denominations, has many things wrong. I’ll help set all of that straight. Glory to God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Wow. All of those bad things you just said about me aren’t true.

This is called a Bible discussion. Can you maturely handle when someone disagrees with you? I can put down scripture for everything I believe; try it some time.

And the soul isn’t immortal. I can prove it with the Bible.

sometimes disagreeing with people leads to wierd places brother no worries

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

The church, with its thousands of warring denominations, has many things wrong. I’ll help set all of that straight. Glory to God.

You? No.

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

sometimes disagreeing with people leads to wierd places brother no worries

Bible discussion forums are just that.

While those who are the ones that enter weird places are those who insist salvation isn't eternal, nor is the soul. And Christians have to labor to help Jesus save them.

None of that is true. That which insists it is misrepresents the truth of the gospel.

It isn't a matter of being in error and needing correction. Those who seek truth accept correction.

While those who boast they preach those lies and willfully twist scripture are anti-Christ and anti-gospel. And that is not the sister or brother of a Christian. That is the proud disciple of the adversary.

 

[Runningman]

Bible discussion forums are just that.

While those who are the ones that enter weird places are those who insist salvation isn't eternal, nor is the soul. And Christians have to labor to help Jesus save them.

None of that is true. That which insists it is misrepresents the truth of the gospel.

It isn't a matter of being in error and needing correction. Those who seek truth accept correction.

While those who boast they preach those lies and willfully twist scripture are anti-Christ and anti-gospel. And that is not the sister or brother of a Christian. That is the proud disciple of the adversary.

salvation is eternal for believers. You have to do something for God to save you. Salvation can be lost. The soul of the unsaved isn’t immortal or gets eternal life.

In John 3:16, it says “16For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

Meaning only those who believe have eternal life. There is no eternal life in hell.

 

[Cameron143]

Many errors occur because of the reasoning of men.

1 John 5

9If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Eternal life is in God's Son, Jesus Christ.

If we remain in Christ, then we have eternal life.

If we depart from Christ, then we don't.

It seems pretty simple to me.

Many errors occur due to the reasonings of men.
Look at the above argument. Life is in Christ. Those in Him have it. Those without don't.
Conclusion 1...as long as I have Christ, I have it. So I better keep myself in Christ.

It's a fair argument using only this text. There are clearly in the bible other verses that seem to suggest the same thing. Some even suggest that we need to persevere to the end to attain it. So why is this wrong?

Quite simply, it's wrong because nothing we do will ever merit salvation. By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. This should make us all shout for joy. What I can't do for myself, God in Christ has done. I didn't put myself in Christ and I couldn't keep myself there if I wanted to. And even if I could, it wouldn't justify me. I would still be creating my own means of salvation.
Why is it that someone believes God standard has changed. Only perfect righteousness is acceptable to God. Do you realize how far our plumbline is from that standard. Sure, in Christ it is growing closer, but the chasm is too great for us. If you are trying to jump the Grand Canyon, will it make a difference if you formerly could jump 15 feet and now you can jump 25? Either way, you don't make it.
Oh please, stop trying to jump a little farther, and just enjoy the One who jumped in your place.

 

[Runningman]

sometimes disagreeing with people leads to wierd places brother no worries

It’s becoming a daily occurrence, sometimes multiple times a day. 2023 has started off pretty dark for this chat. 2022 was better. Oh well. Doesn’t bother me any. I just keep pushing forward.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The church, with its thousands of warring denominations, has many things wrong. I’ll help set all of that straight. Glory to God.

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we would stick to what Jesus taught and said will save anyone that believes as our foundation believing the gospel we would never run into any denominational issues and we would all be able to just share what we’re learning from the gospel and let others wiegh it’s worth

But like we were warned there are many denominations because there are many distorted versions of faith created by those false teachers who we were forewarned would come over the last 1900 years the Bible is still the same but everyone’s private interpretations have created chaos rether than the singular faith and church Christ established and promised to retrain for

We have a singular true doctrine the gospel but so many people invent reasons not to believe the gospel as if it’s for you to believe

also they offer alternative ideas about things and the. Others ass other details ect pretty soon everyone is warring against the other believers over the sabbath or baptism or anything that’s plainly established in scripture like this is a simple example false doctrines created by false teachers take something this plain and simple

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And turn it into a riddle with some extra sauce on the side d pretty soon they’ve explained why you should believe what Jesus sent to every creature in the world for salvation

But because of false doctrine designed to take our minds away from believing the truth we end up believing some circular explaination of why it’s not true and then the way of truth becomes somehow wrong and offensive to people

false doctrines have destroyed the church over time and you know what he said about a house divided I’d say thats why the church is in the shape it’s in now

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Many errors occur because of the reasoning of men.
Many errors occur due to the reasonings of men.
Look at the above argument. Life is in Christ. Those in Him have it. Those without don't.
Conclusion 1...as long as I have Christ, I have it. So I better keep myself in Christ.

It's a fair argument using only this text. There are clearly in the bible other verses that seem to suggest the same thing. Some even suggest that we need to persevere to the end to attain it. So why is this wrong?

Quite simply, it's wrong because nothing we do will ever merit salvation. By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. This should make us all shout for joy. What I can't do for myself, God in Christ has done. I didn't put myself in Christ and I couldn't keep myself there if I wanted to. And even if I could, it wouldn't justify me. I would still be creating my own means of salvation.
Why is it that someone believes God standard has changed. Only perfect righteousness is acceptable to God. Do you realize how far our plumbline is from that standard. Sure, in Christ it is growing closer, but the chasm is too great for us. If you are trying to jump the Grand Canyon, will it make a difference if you formerly could jump 15 feet and now you can jump 25? Either way, you don't make it.
Oh please, stop trying to jump a little farther, and just enjoy the One who jumped in your place.

“Quite simply, it's wrong because nothing we do will ever merit salvation”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:24-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It’s becoming a daily occurrence, sometimes multiple times a day. 2023 has started off pretty dark for this chat. 2022 was better. Oh well. Doesn’t bother me any. I just keep pushing forward.

yeah it gets me wondering alot whether it’s worth being here any longer it’s just an argument usually no matter who says what lol

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we would stick to what Jesus taught and said will save anyone that believes as our foundation believing the gospel we would never run into any denominational issues and we would all be able to just share what we’re learning from the gospel and let others wiegh it’s worth

But like we were warned there are many denominations because there are many distorted versions of faith created by those false teachers who we were forewarned would come over the last 1900 years the Bible is still the same but everyone’s private interpretations have created chaos rether than the singular faith and church Christ established and promised to retrain for

We have a singular true doctrine the gospel but so many people invent reasons not to believe the gospel as if it’s for you to believe

also they offer alternative ideas about things and the. Others ass other details ect pretty soon everyone is warring against the other believers over the sabbath or baptism or anything that’s plainly established in scripture like this is a simple example false doctrines created by false teachers take something this plain and simple

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And turn it into a riddle with some extra sauce on the side d pretty soon they’ve explained why you should believe what Jesus sent to every creature in the world for salvation

But because of false doctrine designed to take our minds away from believing the truth we end up believing some circular explaination of why it’s not true and then the way of truth becomes somehow wrong and offensive to people

false doctrines have destroyed the church over time and you know what he said about a house divided I’d say thats why the church is in the shape it’s in now

He won't hear you.
He believes salvation is not eternal but is something to labor to achieve. And can be lost.
Nor does he believe the soul is eternal.
The darkness here is conjured by that false teacher. And any like them.

All the scriptures that refer to eternal salvation, eternal life, called false.

That's not of God. Denying God's words is never of God.

 

[Runningman]

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we would stick to what Jesus taught and said will save anyone that believes as our foundation believing the gospel we would never run into any denominational issues and we would all be able to just share what we’re learning from the gospel and let others wiegh it’s worth

But like we were warned there are many denominations because there are many distorted versions of faith created by those false teachers who we were forewarned would come over the last 1900 years the Bible is still the same but everyone’s private interpretations have created chaos rether than the singular faith and church Christ established and promised to retrain for

We have a singular true doctrine the gospel but so many people invent reasons not to believe the gospel as if it’s for you to believe

also they offer alternative ideas about things and the. Others ass other details ect pretty soon everyone is warring against the other believers over the sabbath or baptism or anything that’s plainly established in scripture like this is a simple example false doctrines created by false teachers take something this plain and simple

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And turn it into a riddle with some extra sauce on the side d pretty soon they’ve explained why you should believe what Jesus sent to every creature in the world for salvation

But because of false doctrine designed to take our minds away from believing the truth we end up believing some circular explaination of why it’s not true and then the way of truth becomes somehow wrong and offensive to people

false doctrines have destroyed the church over time and you know what he said about a house divided I’d say thats why the church is in the shape it’s in now

Yes and amen. What you’re saying is true. I think the nastiness from some people is meant to repulse people from the faith. Who we are, what we do, what we say, plays an important factor in whether or not someone actually rejects Christ.

Imagine walking into church and they’re accusing each other of being Satanic, anti-Christ, they are going to hell, are liars, accusing others of wanting to murder Jesus, etc. That’s happened here on this forum. Lol

That’d probably chase away 99% of all human beings on earth. Who wants any part of that?

Well, part of our job when seeking God’s glory is to actually not partake in that because the war has to stop somewhere. Why not end the war when it comes to us? People may say many evil things about us as Christ predicted and we could respond in turn and watch it escalate, but that isn’t right.

If you really want to dump a bucket of hot coals on someone’s head, and all people do sooner or later, then do something good for your enemy.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

He won't hear you.
He believes salvation is not eternal but is something to labor to achieve. And can be lost.
Nor does he believe the soul is eternal.
The darkness here is conjured by that false teacher. And any like them.

All the scriptures that refer to eternal salvation, eternal life, called false.

That's not of God. Denying God's words is never of God.

actually running man and I have had many fruitful discussions for about two years or so and I always respect what he has to say even if I don’t agree with it but that’s just part of respecting people who don’t agree with us many things like that we need in this forum

 

[Runningman]

He won't hear you.
He believes salvation is not eternal but is something to labor to achieve. And can be lost.
Nor does he believe the soul is eternal.
The darkness here is conjured by that false teacher. And any like them.

All the scriptures that refer to eternal salvation, eternal life, called false.

That's not of God. Denying God's words is never of God.

Well atleast you correctly put the word Wolf in your username.

As for the rest, I love pilgrimshope and he’s good people.

Here’s what the Bible says:

Matthew 10
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Philippians 2
12Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

 

[Runningman]

actually running man and I have had many fruitful discussions for about two years or so and I always respect what he has to say even if I don’t agree with it but that’s just part of respecting people who don’t agree with us many things like that we need in this forum

He’s misrepresenting me, just fyi.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes and amen. What you’re saying is true. I think the nastiness from some people is meant to repulse people from the faith. Who we are, what we do, what we say, plays an important factor in whether or not someone actually rejects Christ.

Imagine walking into church and they’re accusing each other of being Satanic, anti-Christ, they are going to hell, are liars, accusing others of wanting to murder Jesus, etc. That’s happened here on this forum. Lol

That’d probably chase away 99% of all human beings on earth. Who wants any part of that?

Well, part of our job when seeking God’s glory is to actually not partake in that because the war has to stop somewhere. Why not end the war when it comes to us? People may say many evil things about us as Christ predicted and we could respond in turn and watch it escalate, but that isn’t right.

If you really want to dump a bucket of hot coals on someone’s head, and all people do sooner or later, then do something good for your enemy.

yeah amen brother peter and Paul had an argument and disagreed about doctrine and they just moved on from it peacefully they didn’t become enemies they refer to one another later as beloved brothers and were indeed

DiVision , accusation , pride is the work of Satan in the church over time actual wars have been fought over denominations many killed by one another because tbey were so convinced thier own version is right

Im glad we have the Bible otherwise we’d know nothing of God

 

[SonLight_Wolf]

actually running man and I have had many fruitful discussions for about two years or so and I always respect what he has to say even if I don’t agree with it but that’s just part of respecting people who don’t agree with us many things like that we need in this forum

Absolutely.
However, I don't think enemies of the gospel deserve respect.

Disagreement in the church is natural.

That which is averse to the gospel from start to finish is not of the church.
When God judges that worthy of damnation, they're not worthy of respect by the church they work to sully with false teachings they boast they spread about.

When people have a bad opinion of our faith, actions like that are contributing factors.