Do you observe the Sabbath?

[TMS]

A simple verse instructs me not to touch the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

I will always be under grace and never under the law.

If you read Pauls other statements you'll see that he is saying you are not under the curse of the law, not under the penalty of the law.
The very next verse....
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 3:20 ....for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There are 2 ways of interpreting "being free from the law", one is wrong...
The law is vanished and no longer exists which means that all the sins it pointed out are not sinful anymore. We can't sin.

Or the punishment of sin is taken away by Christ so the power of the law is no longer over us. The law still points out sin but sin is forgiven by Jesus.

Do you see the difference.

Take away all the speeding laws and you will never get a fine for speeding and speeding is no longer wrong. Or the laws are still in place and it is still wrong to speed but Jesus pays the fine for us each time we speed. We become free from the speeding fines by the grace of Jesus.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

Wrong set of commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The law delivers condemnation to all.

The true commandments, His commandments above, will save all who call on the name of Jesus.

I believe it's the same as honouring your parents or not coveting. Another one of God's eternal transcendent laws. But I don't want to argue.

 

[Inquisitor]

Sounds like I’d be martyred then. Is that what you’re saying?

What would your church of the Inquisition do to me after examination by their court and my subsequent guilty verdict?

Purify you with fire. Touch no unclean thing. You must be cleansed, purified.

Will God judge the world with fire?

 

[Runningman]

Yeah that's kinda what I knew of it. Did you know that many of the early Waldensians kept the Sabbath? And the missionary they call "saint" Patrick. If you delve into history it's really neat how God has always had a witness to His people keeping His commandments.

I didn’t know that about the Waldensians! I’m going to have to read into them when I’m on break. God is amazing. Praise God.

 

[Inquisitor]

If you read Pauls other statements you'll see that he is saying you are not under the curse of the law, not under the penalty of the law.
The very next verse....
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 3:20 ....for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

There are 2 ways of interpreting "being free from the law", one is wrong...
The law is vanished and no longer exists which means that all the sins it pointed out are not sinful anymore. We can't sin.

Or the punishment of sin is taken away by Christ so the power of the law is no longer over us. The law still points out sin but sin is forgiven by Jesus.

Do you see the difference.

Take away all the speeding laws and you will never get a fine for speeding and speeding is no longer wrong. Or the laws are still in place and it is still wrong to speed but Jesus pays the fine for us each time we speed. We become free from the speeding fines by the grace of Jesus.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

A good post and a lot more clarification regarding the law. I will respond later.

 

[TMS]

The sabbath is meaningless to me, as is circumcision, food laws, health laws, e.t.c.

What about the laws....
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not covet.

What about these laws?

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

I didn’t know that about the Waldensians! I’m going to have to read into them when I’m on break. God is amazing. Praise God.

Yeah do that! It's so cool

 

[Runningman]

I believe it's the same as honouring your parents or not coveting. Another one of God's eternal transcendent laws. But I don't want to argue.

Good point. Non-Sabbath keepers still believe in giving honor to their parents, but when God the Father wants a day remembered and kept holy, people argue against honoring it. Amazing.

 

[TMS]

I didn’t know that about the Waldensians! I’m going to have to read into them when I’m on break. God is amazing. Praise God.

Yes it is amazing, there is alot in history that shows that people (a remnant) kept the sabbath and the law.
Satan hates those that are kept the commandments and much of history has been destroyed too.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

Good point. Non-Sabbath keepers still believe in giving honor to their parents, but when God the Father wants a day remembered and kept holy, people argue against honoring it. Amazing.

If only they realized what a blessing it is. Sure, it's a sacrifice to obey many times, but I personally am so thankful for it.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

Yes

Yes it is amazing, there is alot in history that shows that people (a remnant) kept the sabbath and the law.
Satan hates those that are kept the commandments and much of history has been destroyed too.

Yes thats true too. I think the Catholics have made their slant on a lot of that kinda history.

 

[Runningman]

Purify you with fire. Touch no unclean thing. You must be cleansed, purified.

Will God judge the world with fire?

People don’t have the authority to “purify with fire” literally or figuratively. That’s something God said He can do. It’s not something Jesus or the apostles did either when faced with those they disagree with. Literally dragging me in to inquire into my doctrines is persecution. Church of the Persecution is what it is.

I hope you’re joking. Then again, your username is Inquisitor so you’re playing a convincing role.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it." Romans 14:6

No one can say a person who keeps the Sabbath has a special blessing from the Lord; nor does one who doesn't keep it have any less of a blessing. Both do what they do to the Lord and both have the same blessing. This Sabbath keeping garbage is getting old.

 

[TMS]

Recently, new evidence has come to light.

Early Waldensians were members of a reformation movement in Europe, specifically the Alpine regions of Spain, France, and Italy, during the high Middle Ages. Considered forerunners of the Protestant Reformation by various historians, the Waldensians stressed the importance of adhering strictly to the teachings of the Bible as the only rule of faith.

Finding that many teachings and practices of the Roman Church were based more on tradition than Scripture, they rejected these doctrines and rituals, calling believers to return to the simplicity of the New Testament lifestyle and the teachings of Jesus and the apostles.

Researc into sabbath keeping is challenging because Waldensian documents themselves have been burned or otherwise destroyed through centuries of persecution.
But it is there.. plan evidence that groups of waldensis did keep the sabbath.

 

[TMS]

In the first century, after the passing of the apostles, Christians continued keeping the Sabbath. This fact is evidenced by the literature of that period, including the Letter to the Magnesians, written by Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch (circa AD 30–107). In it, he acknowledges the practice of Sabbath-keeping, but admonishes his readers not to rest on this day “after the Jewish manner”. Furthermore, he teaches them to celebrate the Lord’s Day after the Sabbath to commemorate the resurrection of Jesus:

Sunday worship started creeping in but sabbath keeping was what the early church practised.

The early quote.....

"Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat” (2 Thess 3:10). For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread” (Gen 3:19). But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord’s Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week].

Ignatius, Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9

They must have been keeping the Sabbath.

 

[TMS]

"He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it." Romans 14:6

No one can say a person who keeps the Sabbath has a special blessing from the Lord; nor does one who doesn't keep it have any less of a blessing. Both do what they do to the Lord and both have the same blessing. This Sabbath keeping garbage is getting old.

You presume that not keeping it to the Lord is good. Presume that both are a blessing.

Is Paul saying that regarding and not regarding is a blessing.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He stands or falls before God, so let each be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[TMS]

So only this aspect of keeping the sabbath day holy is a moral law for ALL to keep for all time and everything else associated with sabbath keeping beyond this is a ceremonial or civil law? Is that what you actually believe? Where is this command for the body of Christ in the NT?

So ignore who Exodus 20 was being addressed to in verse 2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Also go ahead and ignore And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day. Who is YOU?

Also ignore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant and it is a sign between Me and the children of Israel.." in Deuteronomy 5:15 and have it YOUR way.

The true Israel of today are the followers of Jesus. I'm grafted into the tree by Christ. And follow the Lord Jesus.
The moral law still applies and the shadow laws are fulfilled in Christ.

Making a distinction in the laws that were nailed to the cross and the unchanging moral laws is what i am doing.

 

[TMS]

Yes! For Israel and His children. I agree!

Who is the real Israel, and His children?

The Real and True Israel, and His children. The Sabbath of the LORD is a sign between the LORD and Israel, and Israel’s children, forever; a perpetual covenant.

In Exodus 31:12-17 KJB, we read that God said that,

“(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”

Yet, according to the Scripture (KJB), who is the real and true Israel, and who are His children that ought keep the Sabbath of the LORD?

Jesus and His Disciples:

Jesus is the Real and True “Israel” (Romans 9:6-8), the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16), for we read (KJB) in Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1 that Jesus is identified by the Father, through the Holy Spirit who inspired Matthew to cite Hosea 11:1 as being truly fulfilled by Jesus, who is named “Israel” (and no marvel for Jesus is also named, “Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47), “David” (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5), ‘Solomon’ (“Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6), “son of David” (Matthew 1:1; Luke 3:31, &c.)) , “Levi” (Malachi 2:4-7), and many others, for all the scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39; Luke 24:27; Psalms 40:7; Hebrews 10:7; Acts 3:18)). Jesus is the Real and True “overcomer” (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21) and “Prince” (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5) with God His Father, which is what the name “Israel” means (Genesis 32:28, 35:10). Jesus is the very “elect” (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God the Father find their realization and true fulfillment (2 Corinthians 1:20; Psalms 2:8, 116:14,18). Jesus is the “Lord” over His own house, whose house are Christians/Disciples (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33).

Since Jesus is the Real and True Israel, who then are His children?

The disciples of Jesus are His Real and True children, given Him by the Father (John 13:33; Hebrews 2:13, citing Isaiah 8:16,18 in context of Isaiah 8:8-20, “Immanuel”, “God with us”, “sanctuary”, “stone”, “rock”, “LORD of Hosts”). Just as the Jacob/Israel after the flesh had the 12 patriarchs (Genesis 35:22), so too Jesus has the 12 Apostles (Matthew 10:2; Luke 6:13, 22:14; Revelation 21:14), and all whom they taught, the number of whom is as the “sand of the sea” (Isaiah 10:22). Though there was a “natural” “Israel”, “after the flesh”, Jesus is the Real and True “spiritual” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47) “Israel”, “of God”, “after the Spirit” (Romans 8:4). For the Law of God (Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the LORD, Exodus 20:1-17) is “spiritual” (Romans 7:14), and can only be kept by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:22-38, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3,6). There, “remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos, Sabbath keeping in spirit and in truth; John 4:23-24; Isaiah 66:22-23; Revelation 14:6-12) to the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9; Hebrews 4:1-12; Matthew 11:28; Exodus 33:14), and because they love Him who first loved them, they keep His commandments (John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Revelation 12:17, 14:7,12; Exodus 20:11), which are not grievous (1 John 5:3), especially the Sabbath which was “made for” (Mark 2:27) Him/them (Colossians 1:16; 1 Timothy 2:5; 1 Corinthians 15:45-47), never being ‘against’ Him/them; being “light” (Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20, 51:4), never a shadow; fulfilled in grace/mercy (Exodus20:2,6), thus to be kept holy by all in Christ Jesus in the everlasting covenant (Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7).

“Israel”, “after the flesh” (1 Corinthians 10:18), as a ‘nation’ (individuals can still be saved if they call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ), is left “desolate” (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), failed to keep the sabbath of the LORD (Exodus 16:28, 20:12-13, 20-24; Numbers 15:32-41; Psalms 95:11; Hebrews 3:11, 4:3,5), being not mixed with faith (Hebrews 4:2; Romans 14:23), and are to bear no more “fruit” ever again (Matthew 21:19), being cursed, and withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the root (Mark 11:20), being “twice dead” (Jude 1:12), for the axe was already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), and so was cut down, and thrown into the fire (Isaiah 9:14; John 15:6; Matthew 22:7; Luke 21:20), and will be so again in the lake of fire to come (Revelation 20:15, 21:8; 1 John 2:4).


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Thank you, you said it well.

Jesus is the true Israel and the followers of Jesus are children of Israel today.

 

[TMS]

s I have already previously explained multiple times, references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

So you are keeping 9/10th of the law of liberty. And not keeping the one law that God said "remember" because you refuse to see the verses in the new testament that uplift the sabbath.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Act 13:42-44 KJV 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath..... 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Jesus said Luk 22:67 "If I tell you, ye will not believe":
People refused to see even with all the evidence they found a way to not believe.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

Good point. Non-Sabbath keepers still believe in giving honor to their parents, but when God the Father wants a day remembered and kept holy, people argue against honoring it. Amazing.

Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Joh_8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Mar_10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Luk_18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Eph_6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise