Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[VARob]

No doubt that you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, I pray that maybe someday, when you humble yourself in giving up on your work system, the Holy Spirit will reveal some truths to you

You're on a roll... That statement is more condescending and pretentious than your first.

 

[John146]

Adoption of children, sounds like salvation.

The bible defines the adoption as the redemption of the body. It's a future event all believers are destined for. It hasn't occurred yet, hence, predestined for the adoption. Paul is talking to already saved people:

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[John146]

"manifested": to be made known or visible - not to bring forth, but to make generally known to give an understanding and knowledge that God's righteousness is not of/by the law.

Exactly!!!! Before the cross, the righteousness of God had not been revealed. That's my point. It was not available to those OT saints.

 

[rogerg]

Exactly!!!! Before the cross, the righteousness of God had not been revealed. That's my point. It was not available to those OT saints.

Nope.

(thanks for posting Gal 3:8, brightfame52)

[Gal 3:8-9 KJV]
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope.

(thanks for posting Gal 3:8, brightfame52)

[Gal 3:8-9 KJV]
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Yes, and if God preached the Gospel to Abraham, then to him was revealed the Righteousness of God since thats what is revealed in the Gospel to Faith. Did Abraham have Faith ? Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein[The Gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[rogerg]

Exactly!!!! Before the cross, the righteousness of God had not been revealed. That's my point. It was not available to those OT saints.

Just to add - the righteousness of God isn't obtained through/by someone's knowledge of it - it is not from an intellectual process.
The righteousness of God is imparted and received solely by God to someone - it is by a spiritual process.

 

[brightfame52]

Exactly!!!! Before the cross, the righteousness of God had not been revealed. That's my point. It was not available to those OT saints.

Friend you are clueless. The Prophets who were saved had the Righteousness of God revealed to them Isa 54:17


No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Jer 33:16


In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Just to add - the righteousness of God isn't obtained through/by someone's knowledge of it - it is not from an intellectual process.
The righteousness of God is imparted and received solely by God to someone - it is by a spiritual process.

Prior to Righteousness being imparted in Regeneration, Righteousness was imputed, laid to the charge of them for whom Christ died. Then during their lifetime Righteousness will be imparted in regeneration, then they are called.

 

[rogerg]

Prior to Righteousness being imparted in Regeneration, Righteousness was imputed, laid to the charge of them for whom Christ died. Then during their lifetime Righteousness will be imparted in regeneration, then they are called.

Yes, and I think that with/from that comes our knowledge of God's righteousness. It is not the reverse - that we must first
understand/know the righteousness of God in order to acquire it, which if I understand him correctly, is John146's point.

 

[John146]

Nope.

(thanks for posting Gal 3:8, brightfame52)

[Gal 3:8-9 KJV]
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Paul literal states the good news that was preached to Abraham, “In thee shall all nations be blessed.”

 

[John146]

Just to add - the righteousness of God isn't obtained through/by someone's knowledge of it - it is not from an intellectual process.
The righteousness of God is imparted and received solely by God to someone - it is by a spiritual process.

Here’s a biblical definition of what it means to believe:

Romans 4
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

 

[John146]

Friend you are clueless. The Prophets who were saved had the Righteousness of God revealed to them Isa 54:17


No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Jer 33:16


In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.

You do understand those are prophetic scriptures?

 

[rogerg]

Here’s a biblical definition of what it means to believe:

Romans 4
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

And your point is, what?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, and I think that with/from that comes our knowledge of God's righteousness. It is not the reverse - that we must first
understand/know the righteousness of God in order to acquire it, which if I understand him correctly, is John146's point.

Yes thats why righteousness imparted [regeneration] is vitally important, because it takes that principle of Spiritual life to cause the called one to see, hear, and understand Spiritual truths.

There must be a capacity for Spiritual understanding in order to bear the fruit of Faith Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty

BTW that word for understandeth is the same word in Rom 3:11 which indicates man naturally does not have

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

So that means the one who does understand in Matt 13:23 had to be regenerated !

 

[brightfame52]

You do understand those are prophetic scriptures?

Yes and for the prophets personally at their present time.

The Prophets had it revealed to them, they had Christ revealed to them. Jesus said it Lk 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Isaiah was speaking personally as well Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

You are wrong all the way around friend, may God grant you repentance.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Doesn't Calvinism also teach perseverance of the saints?

That's the "P" in TULIP. and intrinsic because of the "I"

 

[John146]

Yes and for the prophets personally at their present time.

The Prophets had it revealed to them, they had Christ revealed to them. Jesus said it Lk 24:44

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Isaiah was speaking personally as well Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

You are wrong all the way around friend, may God grant you repentance.

The OT prophets wrote about it, but did not understand it. It was revealed to them, but it was a mystery until after it occurred.

1 Peter 12
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[Papermonkey]

Its crystal clear that the scriptures teach election, even unconditional election in salvation. Most people will agree that election is taught in scripture, but very few agree that its unconditional, and totally by grace and Gods sovereign good pleasure, not outside of Himself. Even the OT scripture indicates Gods sovereign prerogative in election and having mercy on whomever He will Ex 33:19

And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. In this discriminatory fashion God exhibits His Glory

Now Paul alludes to this scripture in his treatise on unconditional election in Rom 9:11-16

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

We learn that there is what Paul terms "the purpose of God according to election" This is a salvaic purpose,. its answering the seeming dilema as to why so many jews in national israel are being lost Rom 9:1-6

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,​

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2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.​

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3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:​

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4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;​

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5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.​

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6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:​

Click to expand...​

Its from this background that Paul develops his treatise on the doctirne of unconditional election, or "the purpose of God according to election"

Now let us look at what Rom 9 tells us: By writer of godsonlygospel.com "election is just not fair.

Speaking of Jacob and Esau, the sons of Isaac and Rebecca, Paul the apostle states: "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works but of Him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom. 9:11-13). What a passage to confound the free willer! No wonder the Arminian minister prefers to conveniently shy away from this chapter in Romans and hide these things from his listeners. These verses show clearly that God made choice between Jacob and Esau before they were even born! God made choice between them as to which He would love and which He would hate. This was done, the Scriptures say, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand, an election which obviously could not have been based on any deeds, actual or foreseen, good or bad, that man had done or would do. The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, not by anything they have done, that none should boast. The good works they do were appointed, or prepared, for them to do and they were not elected because of any good works they were foreseen would do:​

I do differ with the author regarding his statement "The saved are those who are elected by grace through faith, "

I believe the saved are those who are elected by Grace, minus the faith, but Faith being the consequent of election by grace.

However the main point is, the elect are not elected based upon any foreseen actions or deeds , good or bad, that man has done or will do, because the election of grace was made before they were born to do any actions whatsoever, thats the Apostles point.

This treatise by Paul should forever eliminate the false idea that election is based upon anything foreseen in or of the sinner. Its totally unconditional ! Its totally of Sovereign prerogative !

Is it consistent to refer to God's discrimonatory fashion of election and the say this is congruous to unconditional election?

 

[brightfame52]

The OT prophets wrote about it, but did not understand it. It was revealed to them, but it was a mystery until after it occurred.

1 Peter 12
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

You made a false comment and said that Righteousness had not been revealed to the Ot Saints. Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

John 146

Exactly!!!! Before the cross, the righteousness of God had not been revealed.

That's my point. It was not available to those OT saints.

So now you change it to say it was revealed but it wasnt understood, correct ?

 

[John146]

You made a false comment and said that Righteousness had not been revealed to the Ot Saints. Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

John 146



So now you change it to say it was revealed but it wasnt understood, correct ?

Isaiah is not writing about himself. The entire chapter is about Christ's second coming as King of kings and Lord of lords.