unclean animals? Are we Required to keep food laws under the new covenant?

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Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
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#41
There is a difference between "legal" and "legalism".

Anything which seeks to say that obedience to God in faith is "legalism" is in fact, "licentiousnes" and "lawlessness".

Legalism is error.

Licentiousness / lawlessness is error.

Love is truth. John 14:15; Exodus 20:6.
Obedience to God in faith is trusting Jesus.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
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#42
Further: Adam and Eve were of the natural world. I know you understand what that means. Some seem to need to ascribe
something extra to them in order for them to be alive as if the breath of God were not enough for them to be living souls.
 
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#43
Perhaps you should stop pretending Scripture says something it does not.
....
Even the Rabbincal commentators modernly and anciently reveal the same as I showed you from the plain English.

Are you going to argue with what they said also, historically, orthodoxically?

Abarbanel on Torah, Genesis 3:22

"... This lesser piece of knowledge should be sent by God so that he does not send his hand and also take from the tree of life and eat and live forever, because since he ate what was forbidden to him, his punishment will be that what is permitted to him will be withheld from him, a measure for a measure. It is also possible to interpret this verse in the second way, and it is ..."

"... הידיעה הפחותה הזאת ראוי שישולח מג"ע כדי שלא ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעולם כי כיון שאכל האסור עליו יהיה מעונשו שימנעו ממנו המותר לו מדה כנגד מדה. גם אפשר לפרש הפסוק הזה באופן ב' והוא
..." - https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.3.22?lang=bi&with=Commentary&lang2=en

There are more ...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
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#44
Even the Rabbincal commentators modernly and anciently reveal the same as I showed you from the plain English.

Are you going to argue with what they said also, historically, orthodoxically?

Abarbanel on Torah, Genesis 3:22

"... This lesser piece of knowledge should be sent by God so that he does not send his hand and also take from the tree of life and eat and live forever, because since he ate what was forbidden to him, his punishment will be that what is permitted to him will be withheld from him, a measure for a measure. It is also possible to interpret this verse in the second way, and it is ..."

"... הידיעה הפחותה הזאת ראוי שישולח מג"ע כדי שלא ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעולם כי כיון שאכל האסור עליו יהיה מעונשו שימנעו ממנו המותר לו מדה כנגד מדה. גם אפשר לפרש הפסוק הזה באופן ב' והוא
..." - https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.3.22?lang=bi&with=Commentary&lang2=en

There are more ...
Scripture does not say Adam and Eve ate daily from the Tree of Life.

Scripture does not say they had conditional immortality.

Scripture does not say they lost that when they ate the forbidden fruit.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#45
Further: Adam and Eve were of the natural world. I know you understand what that means. Some seem to need to ascribe
something extra to them in order for them to be alive as if the breath of God were not enough for them to be living souls.
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying.
 
Oct 28, 2022
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#46
Perhaps you should stop pretending Scripture says something it does not.
...
Saadia Gaon on Genesis 3:22:2

"... ואם ישאל אדם אם העונש על החטא שחטא אדם הוא מה שמנע ממנו את עץ החיים שאכילתו היתה מביאה לו ברכה, הרי אלמלי אכל תחילה מעץ החיים, שהיה מותר לו קודם שאכל מעץ הדעת, כמו שאמר לו אלוהים: מכל עץ הגן אכול תאכל וגו', הרי לא היה העונש (שהוטל עליו) מתקיים? נשיבהו לאמור: הכתוב לא אמר שיש לעץ החיים הכח להגן על האדם מפני יד אלוהים, ואי אפשר לאמר כזאת בשום אופן, אלא דרכו של עץ החיים לחסן את האדם נגד הדברים המזיקים לו, ומשמרד באלוהים הוא יכול ליטול ממנו את הכח שסיפק לו עץ החיים, ולא יהיה (הכח הזה) יותר חזק מן הגופים והשרשים המבטלים אותו. ..."

"... And if a person asks if the punishment for the sin that Adam committed is what prevented him from eating the tree of life that would have brought him a blessing, then Adam first ate from the tree of life, which was allowed to him before he ate from the tree of knowledge, as God told him: of every tree of the garden you may eat, etc. Wasn't the punishment (imposed on him) carried out? Our response to the saying: The scripture did not say that the tree of life has the power to protect man from the hand of God, and it is impossible to say such in any way, but the way of the tree of life is to immunize man against the things that harm him, and if he rebels against God, he can take away from him the power that the tree of life provided him, And (this power) will not be stronger than the bodies and roots that nullify it. ..." - https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.3.22?lang=bi&with=Commentary&lang2=en

He is a "Gaon".
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,300
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#48
If you find your game has a little bit of fur on it, just wipe it off or rinse before it goes into the freezer or the pot. Say grace and thank the Lord for it before each meal and you're set. Just don't eat McDonald's every lunch or "Just Like Meat" and expect God to change the molecular structure to healthy food after prayer. Maybe I'm just of little faith. 😁
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#49
Saadia Gaon on Genesis 3:22:2

"... ואם ישאל אדם אם העונש על החטא שחטא אדם הוא מה שמנע ממנו את עץ החיים שאכילתו היתה מביאה לו ברכה, הרי אלמלי אכל תחילה מעץ החיים, שהיה מותר לו קודם שאכל מעץ הדעת, כמו שאמר לו אלוהים: מכל עץ הגן אכול תאכל וגו', הרי לא היה העונש (שהוטל עליו) מתקיים? נשיבהו לאמור: הכתוב לא אמר שיש לעץ החיים הכח להגן על האדם מפני יד אלוהים, ואי אפשר לאמר כזאת בשום אופן, אלא דרכו של עץ החיים לחסן את האדם נגד הדברים המזיקים לו, ומשמרד באלוהים הוא יכול ליטול ממנו את הכח שסיפק לו עץ החיים, ולא יהיה (הכח הזה) יותר חזק מן הגופים והשרשים המבטלים אותו. ..."

"... And if a person asks if the punishment for the sin that Adam committed is what prevented him from eating the tree of life that would have brought him a blessing, then Adam first ate from the tree of life, which was allowed to him before he ate from the tree of knowledge, as God told him: of every tree of the garden you may eat, etc. Wasn't the punishment (imposed on him) carried out? Our response to the saying: The scripture did not say that the tree of life has the power to protect man from the hand of God, and it is impossible to say such in any way, but the way of the tree of life is to immunize man against the things that harm him, and if he rebels against God, he can take away from him the power that the tree of life provided him, And (this power) will not be stronger than the bodies and roots that nullify it. ..." - https://www.sefaria.org/Genesis.3.22?lang=bi&with=Commentary&lang2=en

He is a "Gaon".
Does Gaon mean speculator? That is an interpretation but it cannot be established by scripture. That's just his educated guess. His conclusion surpasses what is revealed in scripture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
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#50
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying.
Oh? :unsure: Well, first comes the natural, then the Spiritual...

Scripture says Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him the breath of life.

Why do people think any needs to eat of the Tree of Life to have natural life?

God sustains all but all are not eating the Bread of Life.

One must be born again to attain to life ever after.

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The spiritual, however, was not
first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.As was
the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:45-48
 
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#51

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#53
Oh? :unsure: Well, first comes the natural, then the Spiritual...

Scripture says Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him the breath of life.

Why do people think any needs to eat of the Tree of Life to have natural life?

God sustains all but all are not eating the Bread of Life.

One must be born again to attain to life ever after.

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. The spiritual, however, was not
first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.As was
the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:45-48
I see what you are saying.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#54
Gaon means "genius" as recognized by Rabbinical commentators, a superior scholar in their mind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaon_(Hebrew)
According to men sure. But does he recognize Jesus as God and Messiah? If not, his conclusion is from a fallen mind and not the mind of God.
Either way, besides the comment about Gaon, what about the rest. Does he go beyond what scripture teaches?
 
Oct 28, 2022
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#55
Those verses said they could. They don't say they actually did.
The implication of 3:22 is that they had not and God didn't want them to now that they were in a fallen estate.
That same, faulty, logic, then applies to all the other trees.

Apparently, you mean to say the texts teach that Adam and Eve ate from no tree, ever, only that they could, until they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Additonally, the trees were for food which was a daily requirement.

Read the texts more carefully.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,334
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#56
I see what you are saying.
Yay, my clumsy explanation made sense to you :D

I designed a Genesis panel :cool:


Genesis 2:17
I do realize no apple is mentioned LOL

She was originally holding what looked like a green tomato :)


 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,319
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#58
That same, faulty, logic, then applies to all the other trees.

Apparently, you mean to say the texts teach that Adam and Eve ate from no tree, ever, only that they could, until they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Additonally, the trees were for food which was a daily requirement.

Read the texts more carefully.
I don't know what trees they ate from because the Bible doesn't say. That's my point. What he presents may seem logical but scripture is silent on the matter.
If he is saying that it's his opinion, fine. If he's saying thus saith the LORD, he has added to scripture.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#59
Yay, my clumsy explanation made sense to you:D

I designed a Genesis panel :cool:


Genesis 2:17
I do realize no apple is mentioned LOL

She was originally holding what looked like a green tomato :)

Tomato is a fruit.