unclean animals? Are we Required to keep food laws under the new covenant?
- Thread starter ServantoftheMostHigh
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Show me the commandment where God said to Adam that he could not eat from the tree of life in the midst of the garden? There is no such commandment.
Thus "freely eat" applies to the tree of life. For while all the other trees are for food, only one was "of life".
Do you think that Adam was made immortal? That goes against what God said:
The faulty logic, of the previous poster (and of yourself), suggested that since he only reads that Adam and Eve might eat from the tree of life, that it implies they never did. Like what? That then applies to all the trees, for all the trees are under consideration. And while they are for "food", again, only the one was "of life".
Adam and Eve were not made immortal by creation of God. That again breaks the text.
I even provided the texts, and even the Hebrew scholars on it.
Even the 'catholic' and 'church fathers' scholars 'agree' on this:
The chain is historic, and orthodoxical.
Fine.
Albert Barnes, Commentary on Genesis 3:22:
"... Hence, it is added, “Lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever.” This sentence is completed by an act, not a word, as we shall see in the next verse. Measures must be taken to prevent his access to this tree, now that he has incurred the penalty of death.
From this sentence it follows that the tree of life must have had some virtue by which the human frame was to be kept free from the decrepitude of age, or the decay that terminates in death. ..."
You are simply mistaken, and refuse to acknowledge your spoken error. Pride (purple as it is), as I said, previously.
Thus "freely eat" applies to the tree of life. For while all the other trees are for food, only one was "of life".
Do you think that Adam was made immortal? That goes against what God said:
Gen_2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
The faulty logic, of the previous poster (and of yourself), suggested that since he only reads that Adam and Eve might eat from the tree of life, that it implies they never did. Like what? That then applies to all the trees, for all the trees are under consideration. And while they are for "food", again, only the one was "of life".
Adam and Eve were not made immortal by creation of God. That again breaks the text.
I even provided the texts, and even the Hebrew scholars on it.
Even the 'catholic' and 'church fathers' scholars 'agree' on this:
"... The fathers of the Church have taught that the fruit of Tree of Life conferred bodily immortality, incorruption, and integrity (perfect health) on our first parents. ..." - https://catholicism.org/immortality-and-the-tree-of-life.html
So the text, when read prayerfully says it. The Hebrew scholars say it. The 'ecf' and 'catholics' say it, do I need to provide the protestant scholars too?The chain is historic, and orthodoxical.
Fine.
Albert Barnes, Commentary on Genesis 3:22:
"... Hence, it is added, “Lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever.” This sentence is completed by an act, not a word, as we shall see in the next verse. Measures must be taken to prevent his access to this tree, now that he has incurred the penalty of death.
From this sentence it follows that the tree of life must have had some virtue by which the human frame was to be kept free from the decrepitude of age, or the decay that terminates in death. ..."
You are simply mistaken, and refuse to acknowledge your spoken error. Pride (purple as it is), as I said, previously.
Gen_1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
I'll rephrase the question. Do you think we're required to eat only fruit and vegetables base on this passage?
If it's true, then why didn't Jesus discourage eating meat instead after His resurrection He ate a fish meal with His disciples.
Just because they didn't eat meat in the garden of Eden or whether we'll be eating meat in heaven is irrelevant.
I think I see where you are coming from with the video you sent, but I would have to disagree with you on how they think we are under the Levitical Law and how they mix Ellen G. White writing along with scripture.
I'll rephrase the question. Do you think we're required to eat only fruit and vegetables base on this passage?
If it's true, then why didn't Jesus discourage eating meat instead after His resurrection He ate a fish meal with His disciples.
Just because they didn't eat meat in the garden of Eden or whether we'll be eating meat in heaven is irrelevant.
I think I see where you are coming from with the video you sent, but I would have to disagree with you on how they think we are under the Levitical Law and how they mix Ellen G. White writing along with scripture.
Not only that passage, as previously provided in Video and Powerpoint.
Jesus was still on earth, in the Courtyard service (where animal sacrifice takes place), not having entered into the Heavenly Holy or Most Holy place services yet, where things change.
No, it isn't.
Etc. There is no more death:
Genesis isn't Levitical. Even Noah understood about the such things.
Flesh was only ever given in temporary emergency provisions, and that to shorten the sinful longevity of mankind:
Jesus was still on earth, in the Courtyard service (where animal sacrifice takes place), not having entered into the Heavenly Holy or Most Holy place services yet, where things change.
No, it isn't.
Isa_11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa_65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Isa_65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Jer_29:5 Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
Etc. There is no more death:
1Co_15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
You watched in entirety? Prov. 18:13,17.Genesis isn't Levitical. Even Noah understood about the such things.
Flesh was only ever given in temporary emergency provisions, and that to shorten the sinful longevity of mankind:
Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Yes, the Hebrews, Israelite, and Jews and Jesus and Disciples ate of the Lamb and fish, and such things. The feasts required it [1], and [2] they were allowed under God's restrictions to do so, and [3] things were different then, Hosea 4:1-6.I said no such thing. That's another logical fallacy from you: red herring. It also smacks of dishonesty.
That has not been disputed. The fact is, nowhere does it say they ate of the Tree of Life,
and if they had, they would live forever after, so obviously, the obvious escapes you,
and you must make other things up to justify them having done so, such as this supposed
conditional immortality, which again is nowhere mentioned in Genesis. A fabrication.
Life was breathed into A&E the same as the animals. Do you think animals also ate of the ToL to sustain themselves???
Nothing in Scripture suggests one must eat of the ToL to sustain natural life. Absolutely N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
You are the one claiming they had immortality which was revoked. Not in the text, though. Not even hinted at.
You should lay aside your rabbis and Catholic scholarly elitism and stick with what the text actually says.
I have already stated that Scripture says that God alone is immortal. How quickly you forget.
That has not been disputed. The fact is, nowhere does it say they ate of the Tree of Life,
and if they had, they would live forever after, so obviously, the obvious escapes you,
and you must make other things up to justify them having done so, such as this supposed
conditional immortality, which again is nowhere mentioned in Genesis. A fabrication.
Life was breathed into A&E the same as the animals. Do you think animals also ate of the ToL to sustain themselves???
Nothing in Scripture suggests one must eat of the ToL to sustain natural life. Absolutely N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
You are the one claiming they had immortality which was revoked. Not in the text, though. Not even hinted at.
You should lay aside your rabbis and Catholic scholarly elitism and stick with what the text actually says.
I have already stated that Scripture says that God alone is immortal. How quickly you forget.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
The fact is, that you seem to keep overlooking, is by that same exact broken logic, that you say nowhere does it say "they ate of the Tree of life", which then follows (using balanced scales of the sanctuary), that the same applies to all the other trees. Yet you refuse to admit your logic is broken.
So, please, go ahead, prove what I just stated as incorrect, and show me one single text, in Genesis where Adam and Eve ate from ANY tree in the garden (other than knowledge of good and evil), in Genesis. Go on. I'll wait, and wait ... and wait ....zzzzzzz.
So, please, go ahead, prove what I just stated as incorrect, and show me one single text, in Genesis where Adam and Eve ate from ANY tree in the garden (other than knowledge of good and evil), in Genesis. Go on. I'll wait, and wait ... and wait ....zzzzzzz.
Here is what the text says:
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Make of that what you will.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Make of that what you will.
Why are you so loathe to admit that the text does not say they ate from the Tree of Life?
Why must you make things up and claim they ate from it daily when the text says no such thing?
Why do you pretend they had conditional immortality, and then claim it was revoked, when the text says no such thing?
Why can you not acknowledge that God breathed life into Adam, and he became a living soul?
Why must you make things up and claim they ate from it daily when the text says no such thing?
Why do you pretend they had conditional immortality, and then claim it was revoked, when the text says no such thing?
Why can you not acknowledge that God breathed life into Adam, and he became a living soul?
Wow. Now you are lying about what is written in the Bible.
Oh, your erudite scholars, rabbis, and Catholic sources have spun many false tales
and attempted to pass them off as God's own truth, just as you are now doing.
I have read some of their nonsense. You can have it. I'll stick with what is written in Scripture.
Oh, your erudite scholars, rabbis, and Catholic sources have spun many false tales
and attempted to pass them off as God's own truth, just as you are now doing.
I have read some of their nonsense. You can have it. I'll stick with what is written in Scripture.
-
1
- Show all
The same does not apply to all the other trees. You have as much admitted that yourself with the verses you gave trying to prove your non-existent point. All the other trees were given as food for both man and animal. Your logic is fallacious in many ways, which I have already pointed out. The only tree we are told they ate from is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. P.E.R.I.O.D. That does not necessarily mean they did not eat from any other tree as you are pretending. If they had already eaten from the Tree of Life, they would not have died. You make God out to be a liar with your faulty logic.
Personally, I avoid Rabbinical teachings like the plague. Historically, from at least Jesus' day, we're showed that they were very corrupted and taught things that were/are abhorrent to God. We all know how Jesus rebuked them quite regularly.
Perhaps they do contain some wisdom and insights... but for me, the number of false/ungodly teachings contained in them make them something to avoid. They're just a bunch of fairy tales, imho.
Perhaps they do contain some wisdom and insights... but for me, the number of false/ungodly teachings contained in them make them something to avoid. They're just a bunch of fairy tales, imho.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I read this thread an hoped that you would reply to it. 
Regarding the quote from another member: "The Unclean... are never sanctified in all the Bible."
I would say: except when they were like in the case of the leper.
In Leviticus this is written about the leper: "And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. 46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be."
But Jesus, demonstrating a new and living way received the leper thus:
"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed."
Peter, still legally-minded and bull-headed, needed the Lord to show him a vision in order to change his mind about gentiles. So, the Lord showed Peter a vision of traditionally and legally "unclean" things, forbidden to be eaten as food.
"Kill and eat!" said the Lord.
Peter, seeking to be justified by the law, tells the Lord he has never eaten unclean things.
But the Lord interrupts with the standard of heaven, the standard of the son doing only what the Father tells him to do: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean!"
Notice, that God HAS MADE those things clean. How? Because the law of liberty in the Son of His love succeeds the law of sin and death.
When the Lord makes something clean that was previously unclean that thing is clean indeed.
But the greater issue is not about food, but about the gentiles. Where once the gentiles were not included in the family of God, now they are included to the fullest extent that Christ gave His life for all.
Amen
Regarding the quote from another member: "The Unclean... are never sanctified in all the Bible."
I would say: except when they were like in the case of the leper.
In Leviticus this is written about the leper: "And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. 46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be."
But Jesus, demonstrating a new and living way received the leper thus:
"When He had come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him. And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean.” Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, “I am willing; be cleansed.” Immediately his leprosy was cleansed."
Peter, still legally-minded and bull-headed, needed the Lord to show him a vision in order to change his mind about gentiles. So, the Lord showed Peter a vision of traditionally and legally "unclean" things, forbidden to be eaten as food.
"Kill and eat!" said the Lord.
Peter, seeking to be justified by the law, tells the Lord he has never eaten unclean things.
But the Lord interrupts with the standard of heaven, the standard of the son doing only what the Father tells him to do: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean!"
Notice, that God HAS MADE those things clean. How? Because the law of liberty in the Son of His love succeeds the law of sin and death.
When the Lord makes something clean that was previously unclean that thing is clean indeed.
But the greater issue is not about food, but about the gentiles. Where once the gentiles were not included in the family of God, now they are included to the fullest extent that Christ gave His life for all.
Amen
“ only Jesus can make us clean “ because we are all “spiritual lepers” beforehand my point is him making us clean making us able is the only way
“Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: According unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, And cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: And my sin is ever before me. Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: And in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Make me to hear joy and gladness; That the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice. Hide thy face from my sins, And blot out all mine iniquities. Create in me a clean heart, O God; And renew a right spirit within me.”
Psalm 51:1-3, 5-10 KJV
Oir salvation is rooted in that prayer of confession repentance and request for mercy and God to make David able to heal him cleanse him renew him David is completely relying on Gods ability to fix him acknowledging he is wrong
“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.”
Isaiah 55:3 KJV
david asked the lord to quicken him strengthen and heal him give him a new life inside
That’s what the new covenant does
Cleanses a sinner
“Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.”
John 15:3
Quickens them
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
renews thier hesrt and mind , thier faith renews then gives thhen a new start they are born again into this mercy and provision of David
The law is not capable of cleansing a sinner of thier sins , the gospel is . The law is not capable of changing the heart of a sinner ,the gospel is . The law is not capable of renewing a man’s heart and spirit , giving them a new start free of condemnation they deserve by the law . The law it’s only capable of imputing sin and making people guilty without any excuse or answer
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-
Everyone needs a cleansing and that water is the gospel
-
1
- Show all