Do you observe the Sabbath?

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TMS

TMS

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Heb 11:17-19
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

By faith.....all this was done...
Abraham believed and did what he was asked.
By faith Abraham did works and it was acounted to him as righteousness. ..

By faith they did.....Heb 11..
So many works and choices to do Gods will by faith..

See how they go hand in hand with each other..

And can't be seperated.
 
TMS

TMS

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Inquisitor said:
The law only gives you the knowledge of sin. no righteousness to be gained in the law. The sabbath law tells you your a sinner, just like the law of coveting.

The law is weak and usless.
Click to expand...
The law does point out sin.
We can't gain righteousness because of our weakness
But the law is righteous, holy, spiritual and good.

The opposite of sin is righteousness.

If i perfectly kept the law from birth i would be righteous like Jesus.

Jesus said "go and sin no more". If the law points out the sins, Jesus was saying "go and obey the law".

The law is righteousness.
Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

The law is righteous, but as many verses show all, you and me, can't become righteous by the righteous law, no matter how hard we try.
That why we need faith and grace.
 
TMS

TMS

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Jesus had a perfectly righteous (law obeying ) life when on Earth.
Jesus is stil perfectly righteous and law obeying today.

Justification= Jesus giving us that perfect character as a gift to make us perfect (as if we never sinned).

Sanctification = Jesus coming inside us to transform us into His image. Molding and shaping us into Christs perfect character.

Both are a free gift, and both are by faith.
 
G

gb9

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TMS said:
Jesus had a perfectly righteous (law obeying ) life when on Earth.
Jesus is stil perfectly righteous and law obeying today.

Justification= Jesus giving us that perfect character as a gift to make us perfect (as if we never sinned).

Sanctification = Jesus coming inside us to transform us into His image. Molding and shaping us into Christs perfect character.

Both are a free gift, and both are by faith.
Click to expand...
Jesus was a jewish man, born under the Law.

so were all the Apostles.

can't separate the Law from Israel.
can't separate the 10 Commands from the Law.

Old Covenant.

New Covenant.

not a renewed. New.
 
T

Ted01

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TMS said:
Heb 11:17-19
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

By faith.....all this was done...
Abraham believed and did what he was asked.
By faith Abraham did works and it was acounted to him as righteousness. ..

By faith they did.....Heb 11..
So many works and choices to do Gods will by faith..

See how they go hand in hand with each other..

And can't be seperated.
Click to expand...
There's an interesting thing here to me, something I admit that I haven't sorted out yet.

In Romans 4, we see:
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness...

Paul says that Abraham was not justified by works... but by Faith. Now this was done well before the sacrificing of Issaac.

In James 2, we get something else:
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Here, James claims that Abraham was justified after the situation with Issaac, by both Faith with works.
You said, "By faith Abraham did works and it was acounted to him as righteousness. ..", which isn't accurate, I think. Scripture does show the God accounted Abraham righteous, years earlier. So, righteousness came by Faith alone.

However, there seems to be some additional justification that Abraham was given when his works were considered.

Please understand that I do think that Faith needs "works" to be seen as alive and effective. I think that God created us unto good works. I just don't believe that our good works justifies us before God - our justification is through Christ's finished work.
 
TMS

TMS

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gb9 said:
Jesus was a jewish man, born under the Law.

so were all the Apostles.

can't separate the Law from Israel.
can't separate the 10 Commands from the Law.

Old Covenant.

New Covenant.

not a renewed. New.
Click to expand...
What is the new Covenant according to the bible?
 
TMS

TMS

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gb9 said:
believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Click to expand...
According to the bible, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just seeing if the bible agrees or disagrees.
Can you give verse to say the above is the new covenant?
 
TMS

TMS

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Ted01 said:
Paul says that Abraham was not justified by works... but by Faith. Now this was done well before the sacrificing of Issaac.
Click to expand...
It was not works.
We can't be justified by works.
His faith was what opened the door to do works, by faith the works were seen.

Anything done without faith is useless before God.

If faith is not exercised, it dies. How do you exercise faith? When trials and hard times come we need faith.

The faith results in actions/works.

Abraham believed and you see the faith by the actions.

If i say.. "i believe God wants me to travel to a distant country, and i believe God will take care of me".
And i don't move, and stay where I'm set up. Do my works correspond with my faith?

Faith = works.
 
TMS

TMS

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We are not justified by works.

If i believe by faith that God gave 10 commandments for us to keep and they are for our good.

My faith will be seen in the works
The works are obeying the law.
But it is all done because of faith. By faith i keep the sabbath. Not to be justified.
 
G

gb9

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TMS said:
According to the bible, I'm not disagreeing, I'm just seeing if the bible agrees or disagrees.
Can you give verse to say the above is the new covenant?
Click to expand...
Luke 22 v 20.

NEW Covenant. no such thing as a " renewed covenant".
 
R

Runningman

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I was thinking about this verses yesterday:

Colossians 2
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

People often point to it and say "See! the Sabbath isn't required! Don't judge me!" but that isn't what the verse is saying.

That verse is for Sabbath keepers. You aren't supposed to judge someone about how they keep the Sabbath because the Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath. People may do different things on the Sabbath, even work if necessary, because the Sabbath is about doing good.

The Pharisees took it too far. It got to the point where people weren't even allowed to pick up anything heavy.
 
T

Ted01

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Scripture says that there is no Righteousness in following the Law:

Galatians 3:21 (ESV)
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

Rom. 3 (ESV)
20For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

Phil. 3:9 (ESV)
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

Gal. 2:21 (ESV)
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Nor does it Justify:

Rom. 3:28 (ESV)
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Gal. 2:16 (ESV)
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rom. 3:28 (ESV)
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
 
TMS

TMS

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This topic about the law and keeping of the law has been a continual point of debate..

John Wesley (look him up), had this to say, in answer to the claim that at the death of Christ the precepts of the Decalogue (10 commandments), had been abolished with the ceremonial law, Wesley said: “The moral law, contained in the Ten Commandments and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken, which ‘stands fast as the faithful witness in heaven.’ ... This was from the beginning of the world, being ‘written not on tables of stone,’ but on the hearts of all the children of men, when they came out of the hands of the Creator. And however the letters once wrote by the finger of God are now in a great measure defaced by sin, yet can they not wholly be blotted out, while we have any consciousness of good and evil. Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God, and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.
“‘I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.’ ... Without question, His meaning in this place is (consistently with all that goes before and follows after),—I am come to establish it in its fullness, in spite of all the glosses of men: I am come to place in a full and clear view whatsoever was dark or obscure therein: I am come to declare the true and full import of every part of it; to show the length and breadth, the entire extent, of every commandment contained therein, and the height and depth, the inconceivable purity and spirituality of it in all its branches.”—Wesley, sermon 25.
 
TMS

TMS

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gb9 said:
Luke 22 v 20.

NEW Covenant. no such thing as a " renewed covenant".
Click to expand...
What Jesus estabished in the upper room that night should be done in remembrance of Jesus.

The blood He shed was how the new covenant was estabished.

But what is the new covenant? Is it the cup of wine that represents his blood?
 
G

gb9

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TMS said:
What Jesus estabished in the upper room that night should be done in remembrance of Jesus.

The blood He shed was how the new covenant was estabished.

But what is the new covenant? Is it the cup of wine that represents his blood?
Click to expand...
play all the games you want, it does not change the fact that modern Christians are not required to keep the jewish Sabbath.

i am not going to belittle God's Word by playing a " gottcha" game.

trust and faith in Christ is all that is required to be saved.
 
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