Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[PennEd]

I understand what you are saying but people get very defensive when the exchanges get heated.

and honestly I should stay out of it, and wish I could delete my posts, because I have not read the prior exchanges.

I do think it can be a bit "clicky" here, I guess it is only an issue if you take the interactions too seriously.

If you can, I am curious to know in which thread this took place? Not affirming the divinity of Christ is a huge red flag but I should read it for myself before I make any conclusions.

I would be curious to read it because there are many things he holds to that are absolutely wrong, especially about Faith + Works and salvation not being eternal, but then there are the outlier ideas I do have some agreement.

Here is just one of the threads where he did it. Read it, and then tell me if my query for a yes or no is unreasonable:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/jesus-is-god.208582/page-3

 

[mailmandan]

So are those "dead in Christ" who rise first barren of good works?

Try not to over think it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Are you a dispensationalist?

I don't know. I just look at context and hermeneutics (audience relevance +) This is the only way to understand any writing whether scripture or not.

To whom is James writing? Who is his audience?

 

[HeIsHere]

Try not to over think it.

Words have meanings and context matters.

This is not overthinking this is hermeneutics and proper exegesis.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

There is a "club" no doubt and they can be nasty.

Too much "Augustine" pretty sad really because Augustine was wrong on many things and he weaponized scripture verses much like we see on here.

If I may ask without you being offended, what Church Affiliation/Denomination do you most agree with?

I ask this based upon most here are not in a click itself but follow the tradition of their belief or many times upbringing.

Example:
You can tell the Baptist when they hammer on the topic of Calvinism or OSAS.

The Pentecostal and Charismatic believe in Tongues and Free Will.

And the list goes similar for Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Wesleyan, Presbyterian, etc..

 

[cv5]

Since I follow what the Bible says, go read what the Bible says and that's my answer.
So you admit to spreading lies about me. Remember, before I even said "yes or no" you were already saying "You don't believe Jesus is God."

Declaring that Jesus is Lord and God should literally BURST out of your innermost being IMMEDIATELY upon being asked. Because the Spirit of Truth gushes out in torrents from those in whom He dwells. That is after all what the Holy Ghost does......testify about Jesus. Right? Would you agree that's "what the Bible says"?

Therefore I find your reluctance......odd.

 

[HeIsHere]

Here is just one of the threads where he did it. Read it, and then tell me if my query for a yes or no is unreasonable:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/jesus-is-god.208582/page-3

I think I was being a bit naive, I followed a few links within that thread,

https://christianchat.com/threads/one-god-worship.208537/post-4967886

In a different thread but very concerning.

Sigh.

 

[cv5]

Babies aren’t sinners straightaway upon birth.

Yes they are. They "miss the mark" in terms of being inherently perfectly righteous and holy before Him.

 

[mailmandan]

I don't know. I just look at context and hermeneutics (audience relevance +) This is the only way to understand any writing whether scripture or not.

To whom is James writing? Who is his audience?

The twelve tribes/Jewish believers, yet it's not hard to find make believers mixed in.

 

[cv5]

I think I was being a bit naive, I followed a few links within that thread,

https://christianchat.com/threads/one-god-worship.208537/post-4967886

In a different thread but very concerning.

Sigh.

Ruh roh.....

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I've never been approached by a moderator asking me about anything, never been warned, never been told to stop something.

On the other hand, there's been no shortage of people who have been rude and offensive to me one moment then the next moment command me to give them what they ask for. Information is valuable here. There's clearly a "good ole boys club" and then there is everyone else.

My final recommendation to everyone in this thread and on this board: you are entitled to block me if you don't like me, but don't harass me again. I do not use the report button at all, but maybe I'll start. That is all.

Look at it this way, Jesus said if you are ashamed to admit He is God and your Saviour then He will be ashamed to admit you belong to Him before the Father.

Yeshua is my LORD, my God, and my Saviour and I am not ashamed to be counted as one of His!

 

[HeIsHere]

If I may ask without you being offended, what Church Affiliation/Denomination do you most agree with?

I ask this based upon most here are not in a click itself but follow the tradition of their belief or many times upbringing.

Example:
You can tell the Baptist when they hammer on the topic of Calvinism or OSAS.

The Pentecostal and Charismatic believe in Tongues and Free Will.

And the list goes similar for Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Wesleyan, Presbyterian, etc..

I have no denomination affiliation, my church does not hold to the Reformed doctrine.

I would say my leaning is toward free grace which most Reformed/Lordship Salvationists vehemently oppose.

 

[Runningman]

No. I’m not a mod, and never claimed to be.

There is a myriad of issues that good Christians can debate and disagree on. Like what this thread is about.

Runningman has a number of kooky theological ideas that I think he’s wrong on, that doesn’t rise to the level of whether or not Jesus is God.

Why would I even ask him if he didn’t intimate that Jesus is NOT God?

Go back, to my earlier post today where I link just one of threads where he does it.

It’s too serious a matter to play these games.

Jesus being God is not only a tenet that is mandatory for this site, but more importantly, is a vital component to THE Gospel unto Salvation.

So there’s only a couple reasons why he wouldn’t just answer the question. And BTW, notice his continual non answer answer. “ I believe what the Bible says”, all the while twisting what the Bible says.

He can just shut us up once and for all by answering yes or no to Jesus being God.

Or he keeps the ball rolling because he eats the attention like candy. Or he knows if he answers truthfully, he’ll be banned.

But I expect him to continue the “woe is me, everyone attacks me” diversion, rather than just answering.

Well, you’re harassing me to be vocal about something I’m not required to be vocal about, either of my own freewill or by Biblical requirement.

There’s no verse that says “you have to affirm one way or another that Jesus is God” or even describes it. We’re told what to expect from people regarding their testimony of Jesus and I’ll quote the relevant verses.

If you’ll read through the thread you keep referencing, you’ll see I referred to Jesus the way the Bible refers to Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is Lord. You aren’t satisfied with this? I think God is satisfied with this, so why aren’t you?

This is what I believe:
✅
Romans 10:9
9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

✅
1 Corinthians 12
3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

✅
Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

✅
2 John 1
7I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist

I confess and truly believe all the Bible has asked me to believe.

Your turn. Tell me where I need to answer your question according to scripture? If you can’t then I rebuke you.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I have no denomination affiliation, my church does not hold to the Reformed doctrine.

I would say my leaning is toward free grace which most Reformed/Lordship Salvationists vehemently oppose.

Wonderful! It's a pleasure to meet you Sister in Christ!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Well, you’re harassing me to be vocal about something I’m not required to be vocal about, either of my own freewill or by Biblical requirement.

There’s no verse that says “you have to affirm one way or another that Jesus is God” or even describes it. We’re told what to expect from people regarding their testimony of Jesus and I’ll quote the relevant verses.

If you’ll read through the thread you keep referencing, you’ll see I referred to Jesus the way the Bible refers to Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is Lord. You aren’t satisfied with this? I think God is satisfied with this, so why aren’t you?

This is what I believe:
✅
Romans 10:9
9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

✅
1 Corinthians 12
3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

✅
Philippians 2
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

✅
2 John 1
7I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist

I confess and truly believe all the Bible has asked me to believe.

Your turn. Tell me where I need to answer your question according to scripture? If you can’t then I rebuke you.

The Lord IS God!

Those Verses use capital L for Lord to symbolize this is God.

 

[HeIsHere]

If you’ll read through the thread you keep referencing, you’ll see I referred to Jesus the way the Bible refers to Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus is Lord. You aren’t satisfied with this? I think God is satisfied with this, so why aren’t you?

Yes, well the challenge is what do you beleive this to mean?

You are unwilling to elaborate.

There are may who hold that Jesus is the Son of God, they interpret this to mean Jesus is not co-equal.

Is Jesus both God and human and co-equal with God, having existence prior to taking on human form?

 

[cv5]

I have no denomination affiliation, my church does not hold to the Reformed doctrine.

I would say my leaning is toward free grace which most Reformed/Lordship Salvationists vehemently oppose.

What is free grace? What is Free Grace Theology? | GotQuestions.org

Is this an accurate assessment? If it is, I am not one of them. Furthermore, a quick scan of the points had me disputing a whole lot of these supposed assertions. Sorry if I am getting OT.

 

[Runningman]

The Lord IS God!

Those Verses use capital L for Lord to symbolize this is God.

I confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father according to Philippians 2:11. Do you?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father according to Philippians 2:11. Do you?

Notice what Timothy claims here in my attachment: God manifested in the flesh.

Jesus is who Timothy speaks about.

Timothy is calling Jesus God who manifested in the flesh.

Therefore, The Bible declares Jesus is God!


Jesus was God manifested in the flesh, preached to the Gentiles, and Ascended back to Heaven:

This describes Jesus in the 4 Gospels.

 

[mailmandan]

Words have meanings and context matters.

This is not overthinking this is hermeneutics and proper exegesis.

It was plain and simple to me. What is your conclusion?