Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[HeIsHere]

Exactly what?

Why is the evidence of salvation necessary, surely God already knows?

Are we here to prove our salvation to others so the sake of verification that we are truly saved?
That is not what James is saying, he is in fact saying put your faith to work so that others may believe. It is not an automatic.

I take issue with this belief that discipleship is automatic, it isn't and that is why James wrote the letter to these Jews who were not being disciples, they were converted but living for themselves just he way Paul had to set the Corinthians straight.

I do agree that are imposters in our modern day churches but they do not have dead faith the imposter has no faith, they are faking beginning to end.

 

[mailmandan]

Why is the evidence of salvation necessary, surely God already knows?

Are we here to prove our salvation to others so the sake of verification that we are truly saved?
That is not what James is saying, he is in fact saying put your faith to work so that others may believe. It is not an automatic.

I take issue with this belief that discipleship is automatic, it isn't and that is why James wrote the letter to these Jews who were not being disciples, they were converted but living for themselves just he way Paul had to set the Corinthians straight.

I do agree that are imposters in our modern day churches but they do not have dead faith the imposter has no faith, they are faking beginning to end.

How do you interpret "justified by works?" (James 2:24)

 

[John146]

Whether to God or to others or both, regardless, his faith was demonstrated. You make this out to be much more complicated than it really is. In Matthew 12:37, Jesus said by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. This is because our words reveal our heart condition.

It's not complicated nor a contradiction when one realizes the difference in audience. Compare...

Paul says: 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

James says: 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I understand most commentaries explain it away by forcing the square peg into the round hole, but James is not answering the question, "Will works follow faith?" James is answering the question, "Can faith save him?" No amount of works justifies.

 

[John146]

How do you interpret "justified by works?" (James 2:24)

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

 

[Blade]

I like how the AMP says it "For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God; "

Just sharing what I see. We on every Christian forum or Church we say the words the scriptures but what is this faith? In the begining for me I would sin and get those thoughts your not saved blah blah blah. No matter how many time I go back and read it He found me creates in me a new heart/new man. The grace is right there and the faith something I can't see feel hear I Just believe. I have to share this I am typing "believe" the song kept saying "believe, believe, believe in your love" the song haha is believe.

So He found me saved me I guess I missed the fine print? "now to keep this you must be doing good works all the time". There's something I think would be wise to look into study is when God gives you something does He ever take it back? No one can tell you this you have to know for your self. Now faith is. with out we can never please Him. Faith is us like our Father that calls those things that be not as though they were. Faith is knowing He hears you then you know you have the petitions/prayers you asked for. Faith is asking Him anything (according to His word) you believe you receive it. This does not get talked about. You ask then you know He heard you you know He answered it yet you see nothing yet you know that you know that you know He answered it.

We talk use this word faith and we don't fully understand it and not many are using growing in faith. Like it or not Word of Faith (not all of them) they understand faith yet what they lack oh brothers and sisters you have we need each other. Faith.. the true story of a man of God at a bar...yeah not doing good but a man in the bar fell had a heart attack the man of God gets up walks over lay hands on him the man gets healed right there and he goes back to the bar and drinks. God does not stop working in your weakest moments. What He gave you its yours. We see it in the world by those that know Him not. They just tuned into to the wrong station so to speak.

For me if I I have to do something to keep this salvation which is a gift from God then it was no gift. Yet something with in me always wants to be going good vs something in me wants to always be doing bad. Start really looking at Faith.. Faith moves GOD!

 

[John146]

How do you interpret "justified by works?" (James 2:24)

I would even argue that at least part of the audience to whom James is writing (the twelve tribes) had not received the word of God and their souls were not saved. His telling his audience to receive the word which is able to save their souls. The book of James is not Christian doctrine to the believer, but to the twelve tribes in the time of Jacob's trouble.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All I can say is read James 2.

did you notice this part

“since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,”

that’s an egregious mistranslation

“even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a man is made to be Gods perfect glory and image once we sin One time we’ve fallen short of his glory , rather than an excuse to continually sin freely which is represented in the first text

Never have read this translation but wouldn’t trust it after reading this quote because it’s leading a mind here

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

grace isn’t a lisence to sin freely without consequence it’s information that is believed leads you out of sin into righteousness

when the argument is “ faith means never having to do anything God said “ your saved anyways it’s a false doctrine because faith is when you hear Gods word and believe him not reject him and call it faith

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Why is the evidence of salvation necessary, surely God already knows?

Are we here to prove our salvation to others so the sake of verification that we are truly saved?
That is not what James is saying, he is in fact saying put your faith to work so that others may believe. It is not an automatic.

I take issue with this belief that discipleship is automatic, it isn't and that is why James wrote the letter to these Jews who were not being disciples, they were converted but living for themselves just he way Paul had to set the Corinthians straight.

I do agree that are imposters in our modern day churches but they do not have dead faith the imposter has no faith, they are faking beginning to end.

James tells us to test our faith..

He does nto tell us to test another persons faith..

 

[FlyingDove]

How do you interpret "justified by works?" (James 2:24)

Hello Dan,
That verse will no doubt result in many different interpretations, here's mine.

Good works come after justification/salvation/imputed/righteousness/Holy Spirit indwelling/baptism.

James message is that the eveidence of true faith, will result in good works.

James uses the examples of Abraham & Rahab to illustrate their obedience was a result of their faith. They were as everyone else, EVER, saved by grace thru faith (Rom 5:1,2,9) void of personal works Eph 2:8-9). Their works were eveidence of their faith.

Additionally, James is written to the "twelve tribes". Before the council at jerusalem where Jewish Church elders except Pauls Grace message that included gentiles.

The OP cites the gentile Holy Spirit outpouring & scripture clearly proclaims. They were saved by Faith & Faith alone! With ZERO personal works needed/involved.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, those hearing believed)

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was & is given!)

Rom 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts ""God who justifies the ungodly" their faith is credited as righteousness
(MY NOTE: GOD justifies the ungodly, it's a persons FAITH/TRUST in Christ" work, whereby GOD imputes/declares them righteous).

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: We access God's grace thru faith (Rom 5:1-2). Faith placed in Christ's sin atining work. Obedience/good works are a result of one's faith)

Godly works come after & a result of true Faith.

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(MY NOTE: Obedience/good works are a result of true Faith)

The fruit of faith is obedience/good works!

Grace & righteousness are Gifts from God (Rom:15-17). A gift is given not earned. Best wishes, JJ

 

[Blik]

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (substantiated, evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.*

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

It is true that our salvation is only through faith. That does not mean that works aren't a most important part of our life as a saved person.

Our Lord has much to say about our works. Those whose sin identifies them, like drunkards, or liars, or theifs cannot enter heaven. We establish out place in the life we will live when this live is over.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Scripture tells us that if we love Christ we will obey him.

 

[John146]

Hello Dan,
That verse will no doubt result in many different interpretations, here's mine.

Good works come after justification/salvation/imputed/righteousness/Holy Spirit indwelling/baptism.

James message is that the eveidence of true faith, will result in good works.

James uses the examples of Abraham & Rahab to illustrate their obedience was a result of their faith. They were as everyone else, EVER, saved by grace thru faith (Rom 5:1,2,9) void of personal works Eph 2:8-9). Their works were eveidence of their faith.

Additionally, James is written to the "twelve tribes". Before the council at jerusalem where Jewish Church elders except Pauls Grace message that included gentiles.

The OP cites the gentile Holy Spirit outpouring & scripture clearly proclaims. They were saved by Faith & Faith alone! With ZERO personal works needed/involved.

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, those hearing believed)

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, regeneration/Christ's salvation sealing/eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30) was & is given!)

Rom 4:5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts ""God who justifies the ungodly" their faith is credited as righteousness
(MY NOTE: GOD justifies the ungodly, it's a persons FAITH/TRUST in Christ" work, whereby GOD imputes/declares them righteous).

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: We access God's grace thru faith (Rom 5:1-2). Faith placed in Christ's sin atining work. Obedience/good works are a result of one's faith)

Godly works come after & a result of true Faith.

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(MY NOTE: Obedience/good works are a result of true Faith)

The fruit of faith is obedience/good works!

Grace & righteousness are Gifts from God (Rom:15-17). A gift is given not earned. Best wishes, JJ

Are you saying that works justify one’s saving faith? What about Galatians 2:16 and others? The faith of Christ justifies the believer, yes?

Justify in whose eyes?

Does God need to see works to justify one being saved?

Do works come automatically without discipleship, teaching and growing in the word?

What if a believer has no Bible, no church, not one believer in his life? How much can really be expected of them before they sink back into the world around them?

 

[HeIsHere]

How do you interpret "justified by works?" (James 2:24)

Justification here is not being used in the some way the Paul employed the word.

It is a separate and distinct justification.

If one looks at the chapter as a whole, James is making it clear that this "justification is before men" it is making visible outwardly the inward saving faith that is not visible.

When I read this letter, I imagine back to different world and time when these brothers in Christ who perhaps thought "well we are saved" there is nothing we need to do, but James was not having any of that, they had a job to do, a very important work to further the Kingdom of God and spread the Good News by their actions and words.

He is telling them about their judgement under the law of liberty, here works will count.

Despite this popular “false faith” views, no other biblical use of νεκρά( dead) can be construed as “false.”

I think that is a problem don't you?

 

[mailmandan]

Is it really about over thinking? Truth stands up to questions and examination.

Or maybe in actuality James is not addressing "empty professors" a label he would not have even known.
This letter is written prior to the Pauline letters.

There were no "false professors" in this group, why would Jews want to align themselves with a group who is being persecuted?

Because this is not what "dead faith" means.
Faith is faith. A dead faith is a faith not being used. They are saved. Full stop.

"False professors" was a concept started by Augustine when pagans came into the church after Constantine and it became okay to be a Christian and there were not being persecuted any longer.

Augustine used this concept of false professors when he interpreted James as way to argue with heretics.

We can still argue with heretics but this line of interpretation is incorrect, Augustine was incorrect, he was not a Jew and did not understand the Jewish mindset.

Says or claims (key word) to have faith but has no works. Can that faith save him? The answer to that rhetorical question is NO and what kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith.

 

[mailmandan]

Justification here is not being used in the some way the Paul employed the word.

It is a separate and distinct justification.

If one looks at the chapter as a whole, James is making it clear that this "justification is before men" it is making visible outwardly the inward saving faith that is not visible.

When I read this letter, I imagine back to different world and time when these brothers in Christ who perhaps thought "well we are saved" there is nothing we need to do, but James was not having any of that, they had a job to do, a very important work to further the Kingdom of God and spread the Good News by their actions and words.

He is telling them about their judgement under the law of liberty, here works will count.

Despite this popular “false faith” views, no other biblical use of νεκρά( dead) can be construed as “false.”

I think that is a problem don't you?

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

I see no problem.

 

[SomeDisciple]

If one looks at the chapter as a whole, James is making it clear that this "justification before men" is making visible outwardly the saving faith that is not visible.

So, who was Abraham being shown to be righteous to? Issac?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Says or claims (key word) to have faith but has no works. Can that faith save him? The answer to that rhetorical question is NO and what kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith.

It’s a claimed faith only. A faith that has no life. Which is no faith at all. It is at best, mere belief

 

[HeIsHere]

Says or claims (key word) to have faith but has no works. Can that faith save him? The answer to that rhetorical question is NO and what kind of faith is that? Empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So where is the explanation of the Gospel if they have a false profession?

This is not spiritual salvation in view.

Spiritual salvation is not being debated his audience is saved.

Saved from what?

James goes onto explain.

(vs 16)

Just as the idle words of some ungenerous believer cannot save his brother from death in the absence of life’s necessities, no more can a non-working faith save our lives from the deadly consequences of sin.

There are temporal benefits to a working faith, a dead faith helps no one.
Seriously pray on it, you will be blessed I promise.

 

[Aussie52]

So, who was Abraham being shown to be righteous to? Issac?

Possibly the servants that accompanied them to the sacrifice.

 

[HeIsHere]

So, who was Abraham being shown to be righteous to? Issac?

Someone people were watching, they called him the friend of God.

 

[mailmandan]

It is true that our salvation is only through faith. That does not mean that works aren't a most important part of our life as a saved person.

Our Lord has much to say about our works. Those whose sin identifies them, like drunkards, or liars, or theifs cannot enter heaven. We establish out place in the life we will live when this live is over.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Scripture tells us that if we love Christ we will obey him.

Good works glorify God (Matthew 5:16) and are profitable unto men. (Titus 3:8) There is no implication that good works are unimportant. In regards to sins identifying them, that would be those who practice sin. (Galatians 5:19-21) Such people are the unrighteous (1 Corinthians 6:9-10) in contrast with those who are washed, sanctified and justified. (1 Corinthians 6:11)