Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, that same John added this 40+ years later

You mean this?

Thats the same passage where he says whoever is born of God does not sin. And whoever sins has never seen or known him.

Why do you always focus on verses that seem to support you. And not even give heed to the verses which do not. And contradict the very verses you use with your interpretation of them?

 

[Runningman]

I never said God would take it away but if I throw it away God will honor me and not make me be with Him.

It’s not quite that easy though. God takes His covenants seriously. Actually, you’re His owned and marked property. You could try to walk away, even run, and hide but hunted down possibly for the rest of your life.

I know this, at least from personal experience, because I flirted with God many years ago when I was quite young and tried to go my own way after that. Many things happened where I finally realized God was trying to get me to come back.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

God would deny himself them

Salvation is a gift based on his promise in his reputation.

Really, so the if I deny God before others He will deny me only works because it doesn't adhere to your doctrine?

God gave the Angels Free Will to stay or leave but humans are FORCED against their will?

 

[pottersclay]

This is the sum of it.

God does not have to forgive...but he chooses to. With that being said we should never take that forgiveness lightly at all.
Gods forgiveness cost him everything. For GOD himself was and is that sacrafice.
He gives us his grace, his faith, and intrust us to use wisely.
In order for the son of a king to have complete authority and to sit upon the throne the king must die. Selah.
Gods forgiveness came at a great price...more than we could possibly know and understand.

Jesus said not only follow and believe but also obey. Those who do this to the end shall be saved.

Now i ask you if you were on the job but regardless of your productivity your attendace, your quality standards, you would receive a pay check and your retirement package. How much effort would you put forth?
This is not a works for salvation statement but some of the commandments require some physical activity.

And if we say once saved always saved is this not the same as israel of old saying we are of abrahams seed?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Those saved always have knowledge, but not all those with knowledge are of the saved.
Those saved always have true faith, but not all those with knowledge have true faith.
Many may have superficial knowledge of Christ through their own human intellect, and some may even believe for a short while, but should they fall from it (and they will), their faith was not a true faith, and they, therefore, could never have been of the saved.
Peter said as much in the salutation of 2 Peter 2:1 (same book). He tells us in it that he is addressing those who have true faith.
How did they get it? By their knowledge? Nope! But by the righteousness of Christ and not of themselves. And if by Christ's righteousness, then it cannot be lost by man's unrighteousness.

[2Pe 1:1 KJV]
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

So we do have knowledge?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You mean this?

Thats the same passage where he says whoever is born of God does not sin. And whoever sins has never seen or known him.

Why do you always focus on verses that seem to support you. And not even give heed to the verses which do not. And contradict the very verses you use with your interpretation of them?

Because there's a reason for both sides being represented in the Bible.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

It’s not quite that easy though. God takes His covenants seriously. Actually, you’re His owned and marked property. You could try to walk away, even run, and hide but hunted down possibly for the rest of your life.

I know this, at least from personal experience, because I flirted with God many years ago when I was quite young and tried to go my own way after that. Many things happened where I finally realized God was trying to get me to come back.

For a Covenant to work both sides must agree to it.

If that wasn't true, Israel, would still be God's Elect and there would be no Gentile period of Grace.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Really, so the if I deny God before others He will deny me only works because it doesn't adhere to your doctrine?

God gave the Angels Free Will to stay or leave but humans are FORCED against their will?

Peter denied christ. Did jesus make him repent BEFORE he walked with him again?

It does adhere to my doctrine.

people deny christ by denying his gospel.

 

[Runningman]

For a Covenant to work both sides must agree to it.

If that wasn't true, Israel would still be God's Elect and there would be no Gentile period of Grace.

The covenant ends with the death of the testator, but the new covenant was ratified with the blood of Jesus who is risen and will never die again. You’re locked into this covenant, at least that’s what I understand from Hebrews 9.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

This is the sum of it.

God does not have to forgive...but he chooses to. With that being said we should never take that forgiveness lightly at all.
Gods forgiveness cost him everything. For GOD himself was and is that sacrafice.
He gives us his grace, his faith, and intrust us to use wisely.
In order for the son of a king to have complete authority and to sit upon the throne the king must die. Selah.
Gods forgiveness came at a great price...more than we could possibly know and understand.

Jesus said not only follow and believe but also obey. Those who do this to the end shall be saved.

Now i ask you if you were on the job but regardless of your productivity your attendace, your quality standards, you would receive a pay check and your retirement package. How much effort would you put forth?
This is not a works for salvation statement but some of the commandments require some physical activity.

And if we say once saved always saved is this not the same as israel of old saying we are of abrahams seed?

Once again, SALVATION IS A GIFT. It can not be earned.

When we stand in front of God, we will either be judged for our sins, or God will see his sons righteousness. and not see our sin.

1 sin is all it takes to make us guilty of the law.. Who are we to say we can be good enough if that is the standard?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Peter denied christ. Did jesus make him repent BEFORE he walked with him again?

It does adhere to my doctrine.

people deny christ by denying his gospel.

Peter Repented.

Someone backsliding and entangled in their old sins is not trying to repent.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

For a Covenant to work both sides must agree to it.

If that wasn't true, Israel, would still be God's Elect and there would be no Gentile period of Grace.

Salvation is an unconditional covenant, from the abrahamic covenant

The law is a duel covenant,

You’re either under christ or you’re under law. There is no other option

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Peter Repented.

Someone backsliding and entangled in their old sins is not trying to repent.

You don;t get it..

Jesus forgave him BEFORE he repented. Can you tell me in scripture where Peter repented? In fact. Can you tell me where peter stopped believing in Jesus?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Ok lets start here

Salvation is a gift not a reward.

A reward is earned by works. Salvation, being a gift, can not be earned.

Totally agree, we are saved by grace for good works.

But such were some of you. But you were washed, sanctified etc etc. He did not say they stopped those sins, he was they were cleansed of them

Lest I myself become a castaway? Castaway - rejected/ thrown away. I believe that is talking about teaching.

Yes, they were cleansed, they repented, the same as David did. But they did not live a sinful lifestyle. The Bible says David was a man after God's own heart.

We had a couple that was attending our church. They weren't young teens. They were living together and not married and had no qualms about it. She got pregnant and some of the ladies of the church wanted to throw her a baby shower. Our pastor took them aside and told them they were living in sin and needed to get married and that he needed to start working and supporting his children. They refused to get married, got offended and left the church. Our pastor explained what had happened to the congregation. You cannot be a Christian and live a sinful lifestyle, as this couple was doing.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The only "Script" I have in my head is THE Script-ures!

You may have scriptures in your head but it's a pity you don't have a clue what they mean.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

The covenant ends with the death of the testator, but the new covenant was ratified with the blood of Jesus who is risen and will never die again. You’re locked into this covenant, at least that’s what I understand from Hebrews 9.

But Israel broke its Covenant with God and God created a New Covenant with the Gentiles.

Had Israel been faithful, would God have cut her off?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

You don;t get it..

Jesus forgave him BEFORE he repented. Can you tell me in scripture where Peter repented? In fact. Can you tell me where peter stopped believing in Jesus?

You know I only differ with you in the area concerning we have a CHOICE to keep our trust in God or to live for ourselves.

So why are you jumping around.

You refuse the fact we have Free Will.

Joshua said to CHOOSE this day. God didn't make them, they Chose.

Now, either I have Free Will or I am a victim being forced.

Which is it?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Totally agree, we are saved by grace for good works.




Lest I myself become a castaway? Castaway - rejected/ thrown away. I believe that is talking about teaching.

Yes, they were cleansed, they repented, the same as David did. But they did not live a sinful lifestyle. The Bible says David was a man after God's own heart.

Yes, so David, as a man of God. did what John said he would do. and could not continue to live in sin..

We had a couple that was attending our church. They weren't young teens. They were living together and not married and had no qualms about it. She got pregnant and some of the ladies of the church wanted to throw her a baby shower. Our pastor took them aside and told them they were living in sin and needed to get married and that he needed to start working and supporting his children. They refused to get married, got offended and left the church. Our pastor explained what had happened to the congregation. You cannot be a Christian and live a sinful lifestyle, as this couple was doing.

well they had one sin they struggled with, was there more sins than this? I do not know from your story.. we all have our bessetting sins. I know I do. but I am not living in sin. nore I would not call that a sinful lifestyle..

We have had the same in our church, and we have had couples actually moved away from each other until they got married and did what was right.

We have also had others refuse, and we did discipline as the bible calls for. and after the final warning, asked them to leave (excommunication from the body)..

but we never judged anyone's salvation. that is not for us to do..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But Israel broke its Covenant with God and God created a New Covenant with the Gentiles.

Had Israel been faithful, would God have cut her off?

The new cpovenant was for all. jew and gentile. that covenant was given first to the jews, then the sameritans, then to the ends of the earth (gentiles)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You know I only differ with you in the area concerning we have a CHOICE to keep our trust in God or to live for ourselves.

So why are you jumping around.

You refuse the fact we have Free Will.

Joshua said to CHOOSE this day. God didn't make them, they Chose.

Now, either I have Free Will or I am a victim being forced.

Which is it?

no,

I do not reject free will.

I can disobey my parents, i had free will. if I did, I got punished.. But no matter what. I would still be my fathers child. I had his blood in me.. If I trusted my father, I would never leave, and I would WANT to obey him because I knew he loved me, its called gratitude.

the same thing goes for our heavenly father.

what is different between you and me is I trust God. you are trusting yourself. why denying that is what you are doing..