Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

rogerg · Feb 9, 2023

cv5 said:

No I don't believe that for a second - it is an impossibility, and I don't know where you get that from.
I said Christ died for the elect. The elect are not godly, and are sinners just as much as anyone is. They by
nature are as evil as anyone else is. However, though being sinners, God has nevertheless chosen them for justification
by Christ. When that happens, their sins are paid and through Christ and they become righteous - but it is by nothing that they could do.

rogerg · Feb 9, 2023

cv5 said:

Here:
[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

HeIsHere · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

That is a direction contradiction with the verse I shared.

We are saved by the Grace of God, what you are stating is some futuristic end times that is not in scripture.

rogerg · Feb 9, 2023

cv5 said:

When I said justification was by Christ, didn't you say that I am satan? So, who is the one that is slandering?

cv5 · Feb 9, 2023

rogerg said:

Pay attention and quit your incessant slandering.....

https://christianchat.com/threads/once-saved-always-saved-osas-debunked.201128/post-5015692

rogerg said:
God hates everyone not justified by Christ and His wrath abides upon them.

@cv5 replied:
So says Satan.

rogerg · Feb 9, 2023

cv5 said:

Okay, we're in a loop. Big mistake to re-dialogue with you - won't be making that one again.

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

I haven't kept up with the discussion between you two but I did see that post and after reading it then reading your responce to it Im actually confused because everything he wrote is true and is in scripture it aligns with the word of God I see no twisting of scripture but You speak about their authority and their lack thereof tell me what do you know of authority? If it remains that we have authority in Christ then we cannot claim to have authority rather the authority in Christ there is a distict difference between the two. You said they had no authority and proceeded to say only a fool would listen to them this doesn't sound like someone who has authority in Christ because if you did have it your authoirity in him would raise the fire within them not cut them down.

Had they spoken without truth and had they been in need of rebuke then rebuke would be justified but your rebuke was a reaction to truth

The_Watchers_2017 · Feb 9, 2023

HeIsHere said:

I believe the Word of God first and foremost.

God displayed His Grace and Mercy upon the Cross.

Because of His Sacrifice, we are Saved.

But His death upon the Cross does not give me permission to live ungodly. His death does give me a Promise.

I will unfortunately Sin as I continue to be molded by the Holy Spirit to be more like Yeshua. I am able to Repent and there's NO CONDEMNATION.

But, I am not given this Gift of Salvation so I can live like Satan and murder people, steal from people, be a habitual Sinner on purpose and think it's good I am Saved.

I've explained this but you must've skipped over it to think of the reasons why you are even discussing this with me.

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

rogerg said:

You are not heeding wise council. You need to listen to what is being told to you and if you keep blindly ignoring it and continue to spill garbage with your words don't blame anyone when God rebukes you because if you won't listen to your brothers and sisters he will step in and will make you listen

rogerg · Feb 9, 2023

Blain said:

You are not heeding wise council. You need to listen to what is being told to you and if you keep blindly ignoring it and continue to spill garbage with your words don't blame anyone when God rebukes you because if you won't listen to your brothers and sisters he will step in and will make you listen

Guess I misunderstood your prior post

The_Watchers_2017 · Feb 9, 2023

Blain said:

I suggest before you think you have any authority to correct someone you should read everything and get yourself a CLUE!

ROMANS 5 IN MY ATTACHMENT STATES GOD DIED FOR THE UNGODLY.

It is so clear even Verse 6 says God didn't die for the Righteous which is the ELECT!

THE UNGODLY IS EVERY PERSON NOT JUST THE ELECT.

MAYBE EDUCATE YOURSELF IN THE WORD OF GOD SO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE A CLUE!

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

Does anyone see what is going on here? Is anyone aware of the game that is being played here? I can feel the spirit of confusion and diversion all in this thread here brother speaking against brother sister against brother there is no unity here at all which means the spirit is not being poured in because if he is we wouldn't be seeing this sad display here.

All truth leads only to one place and one person Jesus Christ it always brings life into existance and brings those in Christ together not apart.

We have to re wire our thinking and understanding don't forget that every word you speak is a seed planted but is it a seed for the kingdom and does this side have life in it does convict us does it strengthen us does it produces any fruit that brings the kingdom?

The_Watchers_2017 · Feb 9, 2023

Blain said:

Does anyone see what is going on here? Is anyone aware of the game that is being played here? I can feel the spirit of confusion and diversion all in this thread here brother speaking against brother sister against brother there is no unity here at all which means the spirit is not being poured in because if he is we wouldn't be seeing this sad display here.

All truth leads only to one place and one person Jesus Christ it always brings life into existance and brings those in Christ together not apart.

We have to re wire our thinking and understanding don't forget that every word you speak is a seed planted but is it a seed for the kingdom and does this side have life in it does convict us does it strengthen us does it produces any fruit that brings the kingdom?

Yeah I am quoting the Bible 100% and you are defending the person who is twisting it.

It's so clear about you don't know what you are doing!

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

I have no authority it is Christ in me that gives me the rod of authority and as for me getting a clue I don't need a clue I am after the truth and the truth is while you sit here arguing about salvation the thing is it doesn't matter what you or I think on the matter it isn't about us or our understanding your job is not to argue salvation but to spread it you don't have to understand it you just have to give it.

Your job and my job every person on here is to plant and sow the seeds of the kingdom we plant a seed and move on plant another and move on this is how the kingdom is brought into reality

He is the one who saves not us therefore he is the one who says what salvation is and who can be saved or not that is his role not ours

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

be silent this isn't about you.

The_Watchers_2017 · Feb 9, 2023

Blain said:

I have no authority it is Christ in me that gives me the rod of authority and as for me getting a clue I don't need a clue I am after the truth and the truth is while you sit here arguing about salvation the thing is it doesn't matter what you or I think on the matter it isn't about us or our understanding your job is not to argue salvation but to spread it you don't have to understand it you just have to give it.

Your job and my job every person on here is to plant and sow the seeds of the kingdom we plant a seed and move on plant another and move on this is how the kingdom is brought into reality

He is the one who saves not us therefore he is the one who says what salvation is and who can be saved or not that is his role not ours

Agreed!

The_Watchers_2017 · Feb 9, 2023

Blain said:

You addressed me but I am willing to sit back and watch.

ThereRoseaLamb · Feb 9, 2023

rogerg said:

But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

This is my issue with the "elect" belief. If the chosen people, the Jews were chosen by God Himself, the apple of His eye weren't shoe ins for automatic salvation, I don't know who was. The belief that God shone his face on just a few people is a lie.

I read a story that said "Imagine there is a town with a boys home in it. It catches on fire and a nearby hero sees it and runs into the building. Single-handedly he rescues 10 boys. He's the town hero! Until they find out that he set the fire and he chose to only save 10 boys. That is the picture you're giving of God.

The Bible says "“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, (Adam) how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!” – Romans 5:15

Adam brought death to all people through that single act in the garden.
How many people did Adam bring death to? Verse 12 says “Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned”

The Bible is pretty clear that “the many” who died by Adam’s trespass is every single human being to ever walk the Earth. Everyone has sinned. Everyone is affected by the curse our first father brought upon us. But then, Romans 5:15 goes on to say that Jesus Christ’s sacrifice will overflow to “the many”. (ALL)

“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.” – 1 Timothy 4:10

“For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord, repent and live!” – Ezekiel 18:31

ButterflyJones · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

Oh? How many here believe in that?

Why not open a poll and see?

My experience of folks who insist eternal salvation is a falsehood, and then insist it tells people they can sin all they want without fear, are not actually serious. They like to stoke controversy.

Because making such a silly claim very seriously calls these verses lies. That's not good.
1 John 3:4-9
Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness, and ye have known that he was manifested that our sins he may take away, and sin is not in him; every one who is remaining in him doth not sin; every one who is sinning, hath not seen him,Little children, let no one lead you astray; he who is doing the righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous,
he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;
every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.

Blain · Feb 9, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

Your not understanding the point of my rebuke or the point I am trying to get out here. I said it isn't about you and it isn't it isn't about me or any one individual here it is about the kingdom and about the testimony of Jesus Christ or did you forget that you on a mission?

I don't take sides and I don't act on my own accord I am lead to say something and I obey but that means even if I am close to someone on here I rebuke when it is needed but not of my own accord or words but by his spirit and his words
I am not looking at the thread or the posts and debates im looking at the bigger picture im looking at the kingdom so again I say plant the seeds of the kingdom remember who you are in Christ and remember what the word of life is this is for all of us to take in

I know I probably offended some people but I saw children arguing and not listening to the holy spirit so I came in and inserted myself because this is going to stop if your not going to be for the kingdom and spread the kingdom then take your empty words and empty ideals elsewhere because there is work to be done

Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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