Well again, I don't see it. Not with the verses I shared in my last post. I believe Christ died for all because that's what the Bible says. But we do agree on the point God loves the sinner. But how can one say God loves sinners if He created them to be that way. Sorry, still get stuck on that idea.
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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The biblical truth of election is absolutely boilerplate. So likewise Gods love for sinners. So likewise the call to repentance. So likewise man's responsibility to heed Gods calling. So likewise eternal security for the born again children of God. And much much more.
I am amazed that Christians fail to understand that all of these things are true at the same time. It's ridiculous that they pick one and deny the rest.
I am amazed that Christians fail to understand that all of these things are true at the same time. It's ridiculous that they pick one and deny the rest.
I don't choose sides and I don't back people unless I have reason to. People can be wrong in many things but when they post truth I will make note of it this doesn't mean I agree with their entire premise or where they coming from and I don't give a flying flip about who is right or here and I don't care what anyone says the word of God says I know the presence in the words spoken when it is done in the spirirt of truth.
Im here to get in the middle of the issue and put a stop to it, I am here to remind everyone we are for the kingdom which means if these debates don't further the kingdom their of the enemy not God.
When you go into this without being kingdom minded you get this mess people get so caught up in their debates they forget the reason they are here to begin with and the truth is not in them no matter how much what they say makes sense
You planted your seed it wasn't recieved move on and plant another side don't keep hanging around the seed you planted let it go don't try to prove or disprove don't look at this as an earthly matter where carnal minds debate and us doctrine and scripture to put in their two cents.
Just let it go you planted the seed but if you don't give it room for him to make it grow it's just a dead seed, does this discussion here bring you life? Does it give you joy? does it stir the spirit inside with a profound utterance?
Im here to get in the middle of the issue and put a stop to it, I am here to remind everyone we are for the kingdom which means if these debates don't further the kingdom their of the enemy not God.
When you go into this without being kingdom minded you get this mess people get so caught up in their debates they forget the reason they are here to begin with and the truth is not in them no matter how much what they say makes sense
You planted your seed it wasn't recieved move on and plant another side don't keep hanging around the seed you planted let it go don't try to prove or disprove don't look at this as an earthly matter where carnal minds debate and us doctrine and scripture to put in their two cents.
Just let it go you planted the seed but if you don't give it room for him to make it grow it's just a dead seed, does this discussion here bring you life? Does it give you joy? does it stir the spirit inside with a profound utterance?
You know your really stubborn. Firstly I don't need to take a stand for the bible that is the word of God himself and in one word alone he can create all existance if anything I need the word of God to stand for me not the other way around. Im not here to argue about scripture im here to prove it I don't care about whether or not your right or wrong nor anyone else I care about the truth and bringing the kingdom I am here to get in the way and rebuke foolish arguing I am here to remind everone about the mission about the kingdom about who are in him this is my field and I only want to plant the seeds of the kingdom this is a barren field where for years everyone argues debates insults each other everyone thinking they are right and people always complain about the state of this and about people here so since no one will take up the responcsibility to make a change he called me.
You speak on the topic I speak on the real thing
You speak on the topic I speak on the real thing
"to many", not "to all".
The "all" cannot be more than those the Father gave to Christ which is not everyone. That is the limiting factor.
[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The world to come is the whole world.
No. The biblical admonition is that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. No verse stands on its own
and must be compared to and against other verses to ascertain meaning.
[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
The "all" cannot be more than those the Father gave to Christ which is not everyone. That is the limiting factor.
[Jhn 6:37, 39 KJV]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. ...
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
The world to come is the whole world.
No. The biblical admonition is that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. No verse stands on its own
and must be compared to and against other verses to ascertain meaning.
[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Because called and I said yes lets go. Just because I don't defend your post doesn't equal me not standing for him. Did I not give credit to you about the holy spirit and the word of God? I saw truth and I pointed it out but you keep whining and not listening. Your on on the same level here your not in the right frequency so your missing the point of everything I am saying, Im not standing for God or the bible I am standing with them and I'm trying to get you to see past your limited view I am saying things that are treasures from the kingdom but you have to be kingdom minded to see and recieve it you not kingdom minded that is why your words are not recieved and why they have no life or power in them. Let go and get back to the beggining of the process until you are kingdom minded your not going to be getting anywhere
I am not twisting scripture, I follow the rules the Bible sets-forth for its own interpretation, which apparently, you do not.
If you insist on being rude, I will stop replying to you. Anyway, I thought we were done with this discussion.
If Christ died for all, then all must be saved - there is no way around that and you can't have it both ways.
Please, read the below closely and think about what they're saying.
Good luck.
[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
[Heb 12:23 KJV] 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[Rom 8:33 KJV] 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
[2Ti 2:19 KJV] 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
If you insist on being rude, I will stop replying to you. Anyway, I thought we were done with this discussion.
If Christ died for all, then all must be saved - there is no way around that and you can't have it both ways.
Please, read the below closely and think about what they're saying.
Good luck.
[2Th 2:13 KJV] 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
[Heb 12:23 KJV] 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[Rom 8:33 KJV] 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
[2Ti 2:19 KJV] 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
“But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!” – Romans 5:15
No brother, you are not understanding. Who are the many this verse is talking about. They are the same people in both places. Who are they?
“That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.”
Read again, it says God is the Savior of ALL people and especially those who believe. All people, those who believe.
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
No. He is the sacrifice for our sins, here and now, and the sins of the whole world. Not future, that would not make sense in the sentence. It is speaking in the moment.
There is no interpretation needed. It is very clear in what it is saying. ALL means all and no Scripture does not go against itself. Very clear what it is saying.
I don't think we can remove the designation or identity of those God refers to as his elect from the salvation equation.
Also, if we accept what we're told about our state of mind as sinners, the natural carnal mind unable to accept the things of God because they are foolishness to them, and the only reason this changes is through intervention by God's Holy Spirit, then I think it becomes a difficult thing to argue God died for everyone.
That is true if the identity of everyone is understood and considered in the context of the identity of the word, everyone for whom salvation applies.
Those whose natural carnal mind for whom God's gospel was foolishness before are now through intercession of Holy Spirit those able to understand that thing of God that was formerly foolishness, the gospel.
Also, if we accept what we're told about our state of mind as sinners, the natural carnal mind unable to accept the things of God because they are foolishness to them, and the only reason this changes is through intervention by God's Holy Spirit, then I think it becomes a difficult thing to argue God died for everyone.
That is true if the identity of everyone is understood and considered in the context of the identity of the word, everyone for whom salvation applies.
Those whose natural carnal mind for whom God's gospel was foolishness before are now through intercession of Holy Spirit those able to understand that thing of God that was formerly foolishness, the gospel.
Predestination, Election, etc, are all relative in understanding that Jesus died for the UNGODLY.
THE beauty concerning God's Foreknowledge doesn't stop or proceed God's Plan from being fulfilled.
But what is never addressed is we only get to see the view from the side of those who are Saved.
How do we know Election wasn't for every human to be Saved?
Just because God Elects us, we still have the Free Will to accept or deny.
No one mentions that perspective because many want to present the Saved as robots who had no say in the matter.
But I remember when I felt God knocking at my heart. I remember having 2 thoughts. One being is this what I want? The other being Yes, I do.
There was no mind control taking place, there was only do I want this or not?
So, it's possible that many who were Elected said [[NO]] in that moment.
But what we POSITIVELY do know, Jesus died for the UNGODLY, which means every human being.
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You bet I interrupted and I will do it again and don't call that a discussion you and I both know that wasn't what that was. Your probably not going to like me because I will intervene when it is required I will rebuke when needed and I give credit when needed but this whole childish arguing is going to stop don't forget who you serve and don't forget the cause abd mission you have been giving God is not messing around anymore and you better get with the program before it is to late because trust me your not going to want to miss this bus and you don't have a lot of time left.
So if you refuse to take the seed he gave me to give you that is your loss not mine I planted the seed im moving on
So if you refuse to take the seed he gave me to give you that is your loss not mine I planted the seed im moving on
I'll address this because it seems to me to encapsulate the jist of your overall post.
How do we know Election wasn't for every human to be Saved?
I think if that was God's intention the gospel would read very differently.
Namely but not limited to the fact if everyone was to be the elect, elect would lose its meaning. Which means God would have never mentioned the elect because of its definition we're his intention to save all.
Also, if all were intended to be the elect of God, God would have softened the hearts of everyone who were born first with a natural carnal mind unable to understand him.
And 2 Thessalonians 1 would not say, With flaming fire he will mete out punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 when he comes to be glorified among his saints and admired on that day among all who have believed—and you did in fact believe our testimony. 11 And in this regard we pray for you always, that our God will make you worthy of his calling and fulfill by his power your every desire for goodness and every work of faith, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
How do we know Election wasn't for every human to be Saved?
I think if that was God's intention the gospel would read very differently.
Namely but not limited to the fact if everyone was to be the elect, elect would lose its meaning. Which means God would have never mentioned the elect because of its definition we're his intention to save all.
Also, if all were intended to be the elect of God, God would have softened the hearts of everyone who were born first with a natural carnal mind unable to understand him.
And 2 Thessalonians 1 would not say, With flaming fire he will mete out punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 when he comes to be glorified among his saints and admired on that day among all who have believed—and you did in fact believe our testimony. 11 And in this regard we pray for you always, that our God will make you worthy of his calling and fulfill by his power your every desire for goodness and every work of faith, 12 that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.