Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Mar 4, 2020
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if you are not perfect. You have failed to make the requirement of obeying the commands.

stop watering down Gods law. then telling people how good you are..
That's not what the Bible says. You're just spouting religious denominational dogma attempting to pass it off as something sound.

I only go with what the Bible says. That's literally the only way you'll find any common ground with my type.

Also, answer the questions. If they get buried I'm going to post them again. I would like answers from all of the OSAS crowd if possible. I may open a thread on this as well.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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He who believes is NOT CONDEMNED

He who does not believe is CONDEMNED ALREADY

seriously now. why do people end up in hell?

because they were not chosen?

or because they did not believe?
Because they sinned. If Jesus didn't forgive unbelief no one would get saved. We are all in a state of unbelief until we are saved.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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No, the Bible tells us at the judgement seat God will cast people into Hell. And who are they?
Those who were of natural carnal mind. For whom his Holy Spirit did not act to change that condition that sees the things of God as foolishness so they could come to repentance and respond then in that changed mind state to his leading them into his grace and salvation.

Without that act of Holy Spirit all would go to Hell. Not by choice.By God given carnal nature.
This is not true

If God does not give every being the ability to come to faith. Then God will never be seen as just and the justifer of the one who has faith in him

All God has to do is reveal to them the truth, to open their minds.. He does not need to make them alive. In fact he can;t until their sin is removed first.. They are dead BECAUSE of sin.;
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
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That's not what the Bible says. You're just spouting religious denominational dogma attempting to pass it off as something sound.

I only go with what the Bible says. That's literally the only way you'll find any common ground with my type.

Also, answer the questions. If they get buried I'm going to post them again. I would like answers from all of the OSAS crowd if possible. I may open a thread on this as well.
its not what the bible says?

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”


If you fail just once, your cursed

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

ALL things,.,. Break one, your cursed

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

it does nt even take willful sin, all we have to do is stumble in one point of the law. one small sin, and we are guilty

once again, Stop watering down the law and repent!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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This is not true

If God does not give every being the ability to come to faith. Then God will never be seen as just and the justifer of the one who has faith in him

All God has to do is reveal to them the truth, to open their minds.. He does not need to make them alive. In fact he can;t until their sin is removed first.. They are dead BECAUSE of sin.;
You do not understand the difference between what is fair and what is just. That is what is causing you to believe one way and not the other.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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So the verses I quoted you're just ripping out of the Bible? No, it clearly says that He is the Savior for all. I understand why you can't admit that, but I believe the Word.
[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Spatially discerned by comparing the spiritual with the spiritual - which natural man will not/cannot/ be willing to do, without the Holy Spirit
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Because they sinned. If Jesus didn't forgive unbelief no one would get saved. We are all in a state of unbelief until we are saved.
you just made my point for me

They were saved BECAUSE they trusted him.

Who's job is it to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment? Who's job is it to convince the world of Jesus and the gospel?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You do not understand the difference between what is fair and what is just. That is what is causing you to believe one way and not the other.
I understand it completely because I am not blinded by a doctrine..

if I look at any judicial system that is a righteous perfect system, What i said would be true.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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its not what the bible says?

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”


If you fail just once, your cursed

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

ALL things,.,. Break one, your cursed

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

it does nt even take willful sin, all we have to do is stumble in one point of the law. one small sin, and we are guilty

once again, Stop watering down the law and repent!
Who is talking about the law of Moses except you?

I am talking about Jesus being your Lord. Jesus didn't say to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus gave us Christ's law and if you call Jesus your Lord then you have to obey him. If you don't obey him then he isn't your Lord. It's really as simple as that.

Again, is Jesus your Lord and do you obey him? This a fundamental question every Christian should be able to answer.
 
Feb 5, 2023
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This is not true

If God does not give every being the ability to come to faith. Then God will never be seen as just and the justifer of the one who has faith in him

All God has to do is reveal to them the truth, to open their minds.. He does not need to make them alive. In fact he can;t until their sin is removed first.. They are dead BECAUSE of sin.;
You said what I said. All God has to do is reveal to them the truth and open their minds. So,what I said is true.

They cannot come to the truth that they are sinners who sin until God opens the minds that are natural carnal because the person is dead to the things of God do to the sinful state that comes first after birth.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
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Who is talking about the law of Moses except you?

I am talking about Jesus being your Lord. Jesus didn't say to keep the law of Moses.

Jesus gave us Christ's law and if you call Jesus your Lord then you have to obey him. If you don't obey him then he isn't your Lord. It's really as simple as that.

Again, is Jesus your Lord and do you obey him? This a fundamental question every Christian should be able to answer.

lol.. you still do not get it

1. Your the one saying we must obey Gods commands.. not me

2. that is Gods requirement.

If your not perfect. You are cursed. Hence you are required to recieve grace

Don't tell people to obey the commands (the law) in order to be saved, when you can not keep the commands as required

in doing so YOU WATER DOWN THE LAW
 

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2023
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[1Co 2:13-14 KJV]
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

"Jesus wept." That is in the Bible. Is it literal? Does it need to be interpreted? Does it mean what it says? The verses are very clear. He is the Savior for all. To add elect to the sentence does not make sense. Savior to all and especially those who believe.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
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You said what I said. All God has to do is reveal to them the truth and open their minds. So,what I said is true.

They cannot come to the truth that they are sinners who sin until God opens the minds that are natural carnal because the person is dead to the things of God do to the sinful state that comes first after birth.
but that is not regeneration.

If you claim it is regeneration. we are not saying the same
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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you just made my point for me

They were saved BECAUSE they trusted him.

Who's job is it to convict the world of sin righteousness and judgment? Who's job is it to convince the world of Jesus and the gospel?
You stated that unbelief cannot be forgiven. But it is forgiven. So it must be sin and not the particular sin of unbelief that merits hell.
It can't be both ways.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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lol.. you still do not get it

1. Your the one saying we must obey Gods commands.. not me

2. that is Gods requirement.

If your not perfect. You are cursed. Hence you are required to recieve grace

Don't tell people to obey the commands (the law) in order to be saved, when you can not keep the commands as required

in doing so YOU WATER DOWN THE LAW
Because you aren't perfect there is grace. If you were perfect you wouldn't need grace. It means you can make mistakes and not receive punishment.

You have to obey Jesus as Lord to be saved 100%. I can prove that easily with the New Testament.

Is Jesus your Lord yes or no? I'm beginning to think you have been lured into a false understanding by a church. I'm here to pull you out of that ditch.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
3,694
575
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"Jesus wept." That is in the Bible. Is it literal? Does it need to be interpreted? Does it mean what it says? The verses are very clear. He is the Savior for all. To add elect to the sentence does not make sense. Savior to all and especially those who believe.
Reading this standalone, explain what it means - according to you, you should be able to do so.

[Dan 7:3-8 KJV]
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and [it had] three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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You stated that unbelief cannot be forgiven. But it is forgiven. So it must be sin and not the particular sin of unbelief that merits hell.
It can't be both ways.
You did not answer my question. Who's job is it to convict the world?

When you reject Christ, who are you saying no to? Who are you calling a liar?
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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Chiefly, rejecting Christ as their Savior. I don't see it as semantics. One is a just God allowing a person to choose to serve Him or walk away. The other is God determining some will go to hell not because of anything they have done but to apparently prove He is God. Just very odd to me. The Bible says God loves the sinner and wants no one to go to hell. That would be a lie if He determined who is hell bound.
I was going to help you out a little but after reading several of your responces I would say you can handle yourself very well you see clearly I can tell you that
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
Because you aren't perfect there is grace. If you were perfect you wouldn't need grace. It means you can make mistakes and not receive punishment.

You have to obey Jesus as Lord to be saved 100%. I can prove that easily with the New Testament.

Is Jesus your Lord yes or no? I'm beginning to think you have been lured into a false understanding by a church. I'm here to pull you out of that ditch.
if I require grace because I can not obey Gods commands as required

You can;t tell me I need to do what I can't do in order to be saved.

\Your putting people under law my friend.. The law will condemn you where you stand, once again, Stop watering the law down.