Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I was saved at a young age, in a Loving, fellowship oriented baptist church in columbus Ohio. Sadly. when that pastor left. He was replaced with many pastors. many who were legalistic in nature.. I would go out on visitation with my Dad and some of the deacons. and I would hear them tell people how they had to stop their sins, if they wanted to get to heaven, That if they did certain sins they were satanic. All kinds of things.. its like a fear tactic to try to get people to repent.

When I left to go to the military. I felt free from the legalistic chains that so entangled me. Instead of loving God and seeking to serve others. I was free to serve myself. Sadly I did some prety bad things. I eventually was brought back to God. and served for many years. In that time, My church collapsed. and I found another one. and was thrown back into the legalistic mindset through them (same baptist denomination) there my wife at the time started seeing another man behind my back and she ended up kicking me out. Again, thanks to legalistic mindset, I left the church. My marriage was bad for years. but I stayed because of what God said. Fearing they were going to tell me to go back and be with my wife or end up in hell. I once again became a prodigal son. until 5 years later, at the end of my rope. after committing many sins, God again brought me to my knees and I returned. Only this time, I returned to a different non denominational church a great friend of mine, who I led to the lord many years before. took me to. I came more humble. I changed many of my beliefs because I found I put to much faith in my teachers and pastors that I did not really study to shew myself approved.. I just blindly followed.

I am still growing. I have a ways to go.

anyway, Because of my experience. I hope you see why I fight legalism so hard.. I have seen many people walk away, because instead of people comming alongside and discipling them, they judge them as either not loving God or not being saved.. I believe the church on one hand can get to far to the left. and not properly disciple a people and sin grows rampant. On the other hand, I see them not come along side and diciple but instead judge people.

Both are dangers of the american church as it is today..
wow....this was something else what a testimony.
I don't blame you for fighting against legalism if that were my story the word legalism alone would turn my stomach sour
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
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wow....this was something else what a testimony.
I don't blame you for fighting against legalism if that were my story the word legalism alone would turn my stomach sour
Sadly, I have found Satan uses two forms of legalistic mindset.

1. The form represented by the jews. Salvation is by in the end accomplished through our works. how good we are. or the things we do (I sometimes call it phariseeism) It includes the thought that if we do not straighten up and fly right, we will not be saved or lose salvation.

2. The form of if we are saved, we could not do certain things, we would not do them, and we would always walk in a way pleasing to God. if not. we must not be saved, or we should worry about it.. Satan loves this kind, because in this form of legalism, a true child of God is taken out due to fear, anxiety or an attempt to try to hide their struggle so people can not see them, up to an including walking away from the church.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
Sadly, I have found Satan uses two forms of legalistic mindset.

1. The form represented by the jews. Salvation is by in the end accomplished through our works. how good we are. or the things we do (I sometimes call it phariseeism) It includes the thought that if we do not straighten up and fly right, we will not be saved or lose salvation.

2. The form of if we are saved, we could not do certain things, we would not do them, and we would always walk in a way pleasing to God. if not. we must not be saved, or we should worry about it.. Satan loves this kind, because in this form of legalism, a true child of God is taken out due to fear, anxiety or an attempt to try to hide their struggle so people can not see them, up to an including walking away from the church.
I won't lie I have sometimes become so frustrated with people who believe in this and preach perfectionism and other things that I sometimes have to hold myself back from just calling them all morons.

I admit that there is a angry side to me and the complete lack common sense and even worse spiritual blindness to the truth just gets to me I mean you can bash the truth over their heads a million times and it won't matter this kind of mindset is a stronghold and a poison so it's going to take the power of Hod to break that stronghold and the blood of Jesus to cure the poison I say that because if you didn't lambs and sheep are not only immune to sakes venom but their blood is used as an antidote
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
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Sadly, as we see even in these chat rooms. Many people believe in the death and resurrection, However, they do not have faith in it, they will spend there whole lives trying to work to earn what God has freely offered to them. While they claim they are secure and are resting, in reality they are not. Because while they believe, they do not have faith.
How?

1. Because you do not believe the death and resurrection is the complete payment for your sin, You believe you in the end have to work, or you will not be saved

2. You believe in the death and resurrection. But you do not believe it was for you. It was for people like Hitler. and all those evil people. I am a good person. and I can say a sinners prayer, and I am saved,, and I can continue to live as I want to, because asgain, I am not a bad person.

3. You believe in the death and resurrection. But your faith is in the church,. and all of their traditions, sacraments, and following them is your way to heaven, Fail to do that you will fall away and salvation will be lost.
I would add a 4th.
... Since Jesus was "allowed" resurrection because of He didn't sin, you believe you will only be permitted resurrection if you also do not sin because you do not realize that Jesus was raised from the dead because death could not hold him, not as much because of His power to be raised as much as by death's insufficiency of power to hold any sinless man.

However, this is where His power does come in, for this is the reason those, trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus, in Him, will be resurrected at the last day because He will present them before the Father as sinless by virtue of His atonement.... as that is the only record 'visible' since the rest, all our sin, is blotted out by the blood of the Lamb.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I won't lie I have sometimes become so frustrated with people who believe in this and preach perfectionism and other things that I sometimes have to hold myself back from just calling them all morons.

I admit that there is a angry side to me and the complete lack common sense and even worse spiritual blindness to the truth just gets to me I mean you can bash the truth over their heads a million times and it won't matter this kind of mindset is a stronghold and a poison so it's going to take the power of Hod to break that stronghold and the blood of Jesus to cure the poison I say that because if you didn't lambs and sheep are not only immune to sakes venom but their blood is used as an antidote
I always believe if God could break my proud, hard headed, resistant spirit. He can break anyone's:LOL:
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
I always believe if God could break my proud, hard headed, resistant spirit. He can break anyone's:LOL:
That's funny you mentioned that because I am the same way and I was telling God how I am a stubborn child and that i'm sorry it took me so long to get the picture. I saw my hard head stubborness as a weakness then he said now turn it into a strength be just as stubbor and hardheaded towards the powers of hell give them a real headache
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
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That's funny you mentioned that because I am the same way and I was telling God how I am a stubborn child and that i'm sorry it took me so long to get the picture. I saw my hard head stubborness as a weakness then he said now turn it into a strength be just as stubbor and hardheaded towards the powers of hell give them a real headache
Give Hell Hell!!!!:D
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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Thats the plan I know now how pathetic the power of the enemy is it was a complete lie the entire time I have known Christians who don't even talk about hell for fear of brining it upon themselves

But in Christ we have his power and authority, it's strange because it isn't like I have read about all this yet it never clicked I wonder how many are the same way.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Thats the plan I know now how pathetic the power of the enemy is it was a complete lie the entire time I have known Christians who don't even talk about hell for fear of brining it upon themselves

But in Christ we have his power and authority, it's strange because it isn't like I have read about all this yet it never clicked I wonder how many are the same way.
I know I get to worked up sometimes.. Thats the hard part.. Is learning when to back away and wipe your hands off
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
I know I get to worked up sometimes.. Thats the hard part.. Is learning when to back away and wipe your hands off
same here and then there is the issue that I will overwork myself I love working and I live to work for God but in both I can easily burn myself out.
 
Jun 5, 2020
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every book is written to believes. but also has warnings in case there are people there who are not genuin believers.

Does your pastor give the gospel? Why would he, if he is preaching a message to believers.. "Brothers and sisters. today we will talk about...."
I have no idea what this means.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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same here and then there is the issue that I will overwork myself I love working and I live to work for God but in both I can easily burn myself out.
sadly so true!! but to me, it makes me rely on God more..

its funny I heard last night the major issue with the american church is we have not suffered tribulation or persecution. its why we have grown so week and complacent.

I also hear the church in china and the middle east is begging God not to remove persecution in fear of becoming the church in the US
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
I have no idea what this means.
I'll rxplain. He is talking about the general churches in todays age. I have been to countless churches and it is surpising how many are like this firstly there is no life in there so many times I would be listening to the pastor look around and everyone just seemed dead. The pastors love to preach to beievers but how many preach on the touchy topics? The warnings to us the things that bring us to repentence even though it probablyhurt hearing where is the preaching of the gospel and salvation to the lost? Honestly it's pathetic.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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I have no idea what this means.
it means the book of cointhians, galations, ephesians etc were written to believers, But if you look, there are things which are written to unbelievers in that church. so although the letter was written to believers, You can not make everything said apply to believers.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
sadly so true!! but to me, it makes me rely on God more..

its funny I heard last night the major issue with the american church is we have not suffered tribulation or persecution. its why we have grown so week and complacent.

I also hear the church in china and the middle east is begging God not to remove persecution in fear of becoming the church in the US
wow reading that first part I was like well their not exactly wrong and then reading the second I was like bro the shame... We really are pathetic huh? I mean these guys where did they get their guts and why is that not here?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
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wow reading that first part I was like well their not exactly wrong and then reading the second I was like bro the shame... We really are pathetic huh? I mean these guys where did they get their guts and why is that not here?
it shook me to the bone, we complain about persecution and how bad we have it, the fact is we do not realise how good we have it compared to the rest of the world..

its also why I think the world hates us (americans) we are a bunch of spoiled brats.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
it shook me to the bone, we complain about persecution and how bad we have it, the fact is we do not realise how good we have it compared to the rest of the world..

its also why I think the world hates us (americans) we are a bunch of spoiled brats.
This is kind of messed up and believe me I am all for America I cant walk past a flag without pausing and thinking of all that lost for freedom but when I think of the average amercian I can only see a fat guy on the couch covered in grease I don't mean to be mean but it is just what naturally pops in my head.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
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This is kind of messed up and believe me I am all for America I cant walk past a flag without pausing and thinking of all that lost for freedom but when I think of the average amercian I can only see a fat guy on the couch covered in grease I don't mean to be mean but it is just what naturally pops in my head.
Sadly, I do not even see the flag anymore with pride. have come to hate what america stands for.. The division, the hate..
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
Sadly, I do not even see the flag anymore with pride. have come to hate what america stands for.. The division, the hate..
I respect what it used to stand for I still carry those values with me and I almost got my butt kicked because I was walking past a persons house and they were burning the flag calling it racist. I lost it I went off on that person and had my sister not found me that guy was ready to deal some damage
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Why is the evidence of salvation necessary, surely God already knows?

Are we here to prove our salvation to others so the sake of verification that we are truly saved?
That is not what James is saying, he is in fact saying put your faith to work so that others may believe. It is not an automatic.

I take issue with this belief that discipleship is automatic, it isn't and that is why James wrote the letter to these Jews who were not being disciples, they were converted but living for themselves just he way Paul had to set the Corinthians straight.

I do agree that are imposters in our modern day churches but they do not have dead faith the imposter has no faith, they are faking beginning to end.
at he majority of Paul’s letters are for correcting thrower behavior and warning then against it warning then plainly about what will happen if they don’t repent stuff like this is much more prevalent in his epistles than anything else

Like this very clear warning

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats Paul teaching the church to repent or they won’t have an inheritance this is a constant on Paul’s epistles

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he was constantly calling then to repent and follow the lord not saying “ either way your saved no matter what you do “ those who believed he was constantly correcting and edifying teaching then to repent and live upright lives as disciples of the lord

a disciple is a follower of Jesus a believer is always going to arrive at that place but those who say I believe but I’m not a follower they aren’t disciples and must not actually believe what he said because he said

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which is why Paul is teaching that also in his epistles and why he says things like this it comes straight from what Jesus said

This kind of thing accepted and believed compels a believers discipleship

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s letters teach the same principles as the gospel he just uses a different style and words to say the same principle points

repentance , remission of sins , upright living , confession of sins , baptism for repentance and remission of sins walking in faith and not just saying I believe ect

abut because he writes so much and makes such deep points people easily misunderstand and make void his letters and use them for false doctrine

they say this is what Paul taught

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but this that Paul wrote needs to be rejected because it doesn’t apply

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings:”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-

Again why is God working in us to change our Will and what we do over to his Will because of what Jesus said Paul’s a believer

Paul knows this also

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;

but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ado he doesn’t want people making his doctrine into something else so he abundantly through his letters makes it clear