The Heresy of Annihilationism

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K

Karraster

Guest
Someone asked early on in this thread, since it was created by a moderator, is it against the site rules to state your belief that man is not created immortal, and only the gift of eternal life means life eternal but those cast into the lake of fire cease to exist? IOW, the belief eternal suffering and agony engulfed in flames is not what the scripture says? I hesitate to use the word Annihilationism, I'm not sure what that means. Anyway, I did not see an answer.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
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Hey, I'm not complaining, I think this might be the most interesting thread going and I'm glad you brought it back because I missed it first time around. There's lots of well thought out scripture analysis here, I only wish the original participants would come back for further discussion.
well thank you,

it is true this teaching has yet again surfaced. I think I'm the one who started this thread too. LOL

yes thank you for your inputs:)
 
Feb 21, 2012
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well, shrume you have a very interesting name it reminds me of something in the dark and made to eat stuff.

you did not use one verse to support your Claim But Jesus said :

Matt 5:22
“But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[fn] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matt 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mark 9:43
“If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—


It was Jesus who said all the above Now have a good day .



Rev 14:11
“And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
You must not remember but you banned shrume a while back . . . . .
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Hello CS1! Great article, succinct and to the point. Therefore, instead of them going to the site, I'll post it here:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Will Wicked People Be Annihilated in Hell?

by Wayne Jackson

Why do you believe that those who die lost will be consciously punished eternally, when the Bible says they will be “destroyed” (Matthew 10:28)?

The question clearly indicates that the author is a conditionalist. A conditionalist is one who believes that at some point following death, those who die estranged from God will be annihilated, i.e., cease to exist. This is the dogma of the Seventh-day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and a few other misguided religionists.

In one of his discourses Jesus declared:

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Mt. 10:28 NASB).

The Greek word for “destroy” is apolesai, which derives from the verb form apollumi. The verb occurs about ninety times, and a noun form is found some eighteen times. I do not know of a single reputable English translation that renders the term in any instance, “to go out of existence.” It is translated by such common English words as “perish,” “destroy,” “lose,” or “lost.”

The term is employed of physical items that lose their usefulness. A wineskin that cracks open and is no longer usable is said to “perish” (Lk. 5:37). A sheep that wanders away from the safety of the fold is described as “lost” (Lk. 15:4, 6), i.e., separated from the shepherd. The wayward prodigal son was “lost” to his father (Lk. 15:24), though certainly not annihilated. Food that spoils is said to have “perished” (Jn. 6:27).

When the disciples were fearful of drowning in a storm on the sea of Galilee, they awoke the sleeping Lord, and exclaimed, “[W]e are perishing,” employing a present tense form of apollumi (Mt. 8:25). Surely they were not saying, “Lord, we are in the process of going out of existence.”

Regarding apollumi, W. E. Vine comments: “The idea is not extinction but ruin, loss, not of being, but of well-being” (1991, 211).

Renowned scholar J. H. Thayer defined apollumi, with reference to Matthew 10:28, in the following fashion: “metaphorically, to devote or give over to eternal misery” (1958, 64).

Professor Oepke argues that apollumi does not suggest a mere “extinction of physical existence”; rather it involves the hopeless desperation of eternal separation from God (1964, 396).

Of apollumi in Matthew 10:28, A. T. Robertson writes: “‘Destroy’ here is not annihilation, but eternal punishment” (1930, 83).

It is hardly necessary to pile up additional testimony from respected New Testament scholars.

Finally, the Scriptures themselves clearly give the true sense of apollumi.

In Revelation 17:8, 11, John describes the wicked beast who so opposed God as going into “perdition” (apoleian). However, in 20:10 the same writer, alluding to the same beast, describes his destiny as one of being “tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Clearly, that is not utter extinction.

The conditionalist dogma of eventual annihilation for the wicked is false, and those who advocate this view are doing a great disservice to the cause of truth.
Good article. Amen to the truth! Thanks for posting. Regarding this, consider this additional information regarding this subject:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
(Matt.7:13)

The word translated "destruction" is the Greek noun "apoleia" which stems from the verb "apollumi." That said, below is an except from the definition of apoleia.

684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being

Notice that right in the definition of the word (boldened and underlined) it states that the word "does not imply annihilation." Therefore, the "destruction" in Matt.7:13 for those who enter through the wide gate, by definition of the word, will not be annihilated, but destroyed, meaning eternal loss of well being, eternal ruination in separation from God in the lake of fire.

The on-going problem with the annihilationist, is the translated word "destruction" which they define as annihilation, when they should be applying the literal Greek meaning.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
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When a court judges death sentence on a man, he is cast alive into a room, strapped down to a bed, and the sentence of death is carried out.

He is cast alive into the room. He does not come out of it still alive.

So...you have not furthered your point. And I'm not saying you are right or wrong that men are born eternal beings. I'm only saying your point does not prove what you want it to prove.
Yes, but if he was not in Christ and though his "body does not come out alive" at the time of death his spirit departs from the body and goes into Hades, where like the rich man, he is in torment in flame and will remain there until the great white throne judgment.

Eternal Life and death are both states of conscious existence, which is determined by an individuals state of being with God.

Life = Eternal existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God

Death = Eternal existence in separation form the Lord in the lake of fire

Your example only deals with the body.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
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Someone asked early on in this thread, since it was created by a moderator, is it against the site rules to state your belief that man is not created immortal, and only the gift of eternal life means life eternal but those cast into the lake of fire cease to exist? IOW, the belief eternal suffering and agony engulfed in flames is not what the scripture says? I hesitate to use the word Annihilationism, I'm not sure what that means. Anyway, I did not see an answer.
I did start the thread, I do not ban people nor do I recommend they be banned for disagreeing with me. However, In context to the word of God Jesus said in Mark 9:42–48 also is similar to Matthew 18:6–9 and records Jesus’ teaching that hell is a punishment for sin that is worse than death and earthly suffering. Hell is exclusion from the kingdom of God, a result of God’s active judgment on sin, and a place of eternal suffering.

Yes, the scriptures do say and Jesus is the one who said it. You hesitate to use the term Annihilation out of fear of banning yet you hold to it. it is false teaching, unbiblical and goes against what Jesus taught about the eternal punishment of a place called hell. IT is not held here at Christian Chat Just Like:

  • Tongues needed for salvation
  • Oneness baptized in Jesus name only for salvation
  • Hyper-Grace
  • saying the Trinity is unbiblical or speaking against the deity of Christ
  • universalism
  • teaching hell does not exist
  • The RCC
and the false teaching of Annihilationism. You can hold to any one of them if you like they are not embraced or supported they are tolerated. as long as you do not become rude or insulting or break one of the long-standing rules, you are allowed to say what you believe. This gives those with a Biblical opposition to refute the above doctrine, teachings, and positions. If Admin ban's a person most of the time it is not only because of the false teaching their is more to it.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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those who deny the enternal hell punishment are doing harm to those new to the Lord :

Bible 101 on hell read in context the vast amount of scriptures and words of our Lord who is the authority on the topic.





  • God made Hell because of who he is - holy, holy, holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8) - and thus is too pure to look upon sin (Hab 1:13).
  • (2) God is love (1 John 4:7-8) and while he spoke more concerning Heaven than he did Hell, in his holiness and honesty Jesus spoke about Hell (i.e. Gehenna) a considerable amount of times too - since he is the Word, Jesus is actually the author of every usage of Hell in the Bible (Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; parallels to the same; Matt 7:21-23; 8:12; 13:42; 24:29-31, 45-51; 25:30-32, 41-46; Rev 2:11, etc.).
  • (3) God is the Judge and sends the unsaved to Hell (Matt 25:41; 2 Pet 2:4, 9).
  • (4) In another sense, people send themselves to Hell, as they willing sin against God (Rom 2:5; 3:23; 1 Cor 6:9).
  • (5) Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt 25:41), but Satan's seed (Gen 3:15) will spend eternity there as well (Rev 20:14).
  • (6) Hell is a place where one can never stop sinning (Rom 8:7-8; Rev 21:8; 22:14-15). Since the sinners in Hell keep sinning there is perpetual punishment.
  • (7) Hell is a waterless place with no exit (Luke 16:24-26).
  • (8) Hell is a bottomless pit (Rev 20:1).
  • (9) Hell is a lake of fire into which the wicked will be cast alive forever (Rev 19:20; 20:15).
  • (10) Hell is a place of eternal torments (Luke 16:23).
  • (11) Hell is a place of everlasting punishment (Matt 25:46).
  • (12) Hell is a place of everlasting destruction from the presence of God (2 Thess 1:6-10).
  • (13) Hell is a place of being cut into pieces (Matt 24:51).
  • (14) Hell is a place where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48).
  • (15) Hell is a place of outer darkness, of weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25:30).
  • (16) It's not enough for God to take us out of Hell; he must remove Hell out of us; and thus he sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of his people (Rom 5:8; Jude 1:23; John 1:29).

A general definition of Annihilationism ("extinctionism" or "destructionism") is that after people have paid a penalty for their sins, they will be completely obliterated or cease to exist. Or, the annihilation view of Hell contends that there will be irreversible terrible and horrific punishment for the reprobate; those who don't know Christ. This punishment may last for a period of time, but ultimately it will end. The reprobate will simply pass out of existence; they will not be punished forever and ever.


those who hold to it :
Some of the false denominations that teach a form of Annihilationism include: Christadelphians, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and Seventh-day Adventists. Some other theologians are also campaigning against the historic doctrine of an eternal Hell; such as Philip E. Hughes, John Stott, and John W. Wenham, Michael Green, et. al.

one begins to study Annihilationism, they will soon discover that there are different nuances to the doctrine.
here are some resources

Annihilationism Error: Hebrew Word Definition Charts
Annihilationism Error: Greek Word Definition Charts
yep
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Good article. Amen to the truth! Thanks for posting. Regarding this, consider this additional information regarding this subject:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it."
(Matt.7:13)

The word translated "destruction" is the Greek noun "apoleia" which stems from the verb "apollumi." That said, below is an except from the definition of apoleia.

684 /apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being

Notice that right in the definition of the word (boldened and underlined) it states that the word "does not imply annihilation." Therefore, the "destruction" in Matt.7:13 for those who enter through the wide gate, by definition of the word, will not be annihilated, but destroyed, meaning eternal loss of well being, eternal ruination in separation from God in the lake of fire.

The on-going problem with the annihilationist, is the translated word "destruction" which they define as annihilation, when they should be applying the literal Greek meaning.
The flesh does not provide life . The promise was death not half dead, the unseen half alive.

The ongoing problem of literalist is they refuse to walk by faith (the unseen spiritual understandin}. The gate leads to destruction never to rise to new spirit life. Salvation leads to new spirit life .(unseen)

Therefore, the "destruction" in Matt.7:13 for those who enter through the wide gate, by definition of the word, annihilated, destroyed, meaning eternal loss of well being, eternal ruination in separation from God in the lake of fire. Never to rise to new spirit life .

No such thing as eternal suffering. Death is the end of suffering not the beginning.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Psalm 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
 

NilsForChrist

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Jan 31, 2023
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I used to support that doctrine. My support for that doctrine was on the Book of Ecclesiastes, however, people forget that this very book is a very poetical one. There is no reason to believe Luke 16 was a parable.
 
Feb 8, 2023
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Still on earth !
The second death is a term signifying being cast alive into the place of GOD's wrath against sin. There is no indication that anyone will cease to exist there, but will experience the flame that is never quenched and the worm that never dies.


AS PHAROAH SAID IN THE ORIGINAL " TEN COMMANDMENTS"...... CHARLTON HESTON / YUL BRYNER....

"SO LET IT BE WRITTEN SO LET IT BE DONE".

IF GOD SAID IT.....& HE DID, SO ...WILL....IT BE DONE!
 
Jan 27, 2023
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From my understanding of scriptures, man can indeed be destroyed. As we are told via the Messiah in Mt 10:28 - “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Scriptures also tell us that “hell” is everlasting, Revelation 20:10 - “and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” With these references in mind, I believe that hell represents eternal punishment, but for man - not eternal punishing.
 

NilsForChrist

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Jan 31, 2023
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From my understanding of scriptures, man can indeed be destroyed. As we are told via the Messiah in Mt 10:28 - “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Scriptures also tell us that “hell” is everlasting, Revelation 20:10 - “and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” With these references in mind, I believe that hell represents eternal punishment, but for man - not eternal punishing.
Semantics. BTW, the Greek word for "destroy" is "apollimy", which can also mean "to deliver unto misery"
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Teaching that hell is not eternal minimizes what God has said in His Word. If a sinner just dies and ceases to exist, then why would it matter if he lived in sin all his life? Annihilationism actually minimizes the love of God.
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s eternal is not hell , hell has an end to itself hell itself is going to be destroyed in the second death. Plainly written

The lake of fire is what’s eternal and comes after the final judgement ( hell is a holding place before that for the wicked ) after the dead who were in hell are raised up to life to be judged by Jesus

again very plainly written in the revelation

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-

simple point hell is not the lake of fire hell is cast into the lake of fire after it gives up the dead who were in it for judgement.

It’s something that’s plainly written.

is the lake of fire eternal ? Sure it is hell is not

One is a holding place for the dead from the beginning of the world to the end

a and then at the end of the world Christ will return for judgement at that point like it says he’ll will give up the dead who were In it and then he’ll will be destroyed in the lake of fire the second death

After the lake of fire

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
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“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them:

and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what’s eternal is not hell , hell has an end to itself hell itself is going to be destroyed in the second death. Plainly written

The lake of fire is what’s eternal and comes after the final judgement ( hell is a holding place before that for the wicked ) after the dead who were in hell are raised up to life to be judged by Jesus

again very plainly written in the revelation

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-

simple point hell is not the lake of fire hell is cast into the lake of fire after it gives up the dead who were in it for judgement.

It’s something that’s plainly written.

is the lake of fire eternal ? Sure it is hell is not

One is a holding place for the dead from the beginning of the world to the end

a and then at the end of the world Christ will return for judgement at that point like it says he’ll will give up the dead who were In it and then he’ll will be destroyed in the lake of fire the second death

After the lake of fire

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. Ecclesiastes 3:14

It would contradict with God's nature and justice to remove sinners from existance
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. Ecclesiastes 3:14

It would contradict with God's nature and justice to remove sinners from existance
Youre saying Gods word contradicts with his nature ?

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after that happens this is the next verse

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Passed away in the second death and then we see the new things and how the things before are again passed away like death it’s passed away , pain and tears passed away with the world

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not at all contrary to Gods nature it’s actually what he’s been saying for thousands of years

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the Bible there are two creations explained one is doomed to end every aspect of it and another is promised

this

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

and this

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Concerning death and hell they enter

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And you see thoer activity through the revelation and when thier purposes in Gods plan are over they exit

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After this happens we see how the old things have passed away and there is anew eternal creation filled with Gods kingdom and there’s no death because death was cast into the lake of fire nd passed away in the second death

Gods word is always in agreement with his nature and his nature is. Ot to torture evil people for eternity how Will is to remove evil from creation and prosper a good and right world filled with good and right people who won’t die but will live forever with him
 

NilsForChrist

Active member
Jan 31, 2023
183
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Youre saying Gods word contradicts with his nature ?

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:11, 13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after that happens this is the next verse

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Passed away in the second death and then we see the new things and how the things before are again passed away like death it’s passed away , pain and tears passed away with the world

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not at all contrary to Gods nature it’s actually what he’s been saying for thousands of years

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the Bible there are two creations explained one is doomed to end every aspect of it and another is promised

this

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

and this

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Concerning death and hell they enter

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And you see thoer activity through the revelation and when thier purposes in Gods plan are over they exit

“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

After this happens we see how the old things have passed away and there is anew eternal creation filled with Gods kingdom and there’s no death because death was cast into the lake of fire nd passed away in the second death

Gods word is always in agreement with his nature and his nature is. Ot to torture evil people for eternity how Will is to remove evil from creation and prosper a good and right world filled with good and right people who won’t die but will live forever with him
Death in that sense doesn't mean 'annihilation'. If that is true, people who don't want God would love this situation.
 
Feb 8, 2023
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Still on earth !
Let's look at this part " eternal".
Now I'm not talking in another language but the one of most folks understanding...ENGLISH!

If God is eternal, and promises eternal life to his believers, how can we down grade the word eternal to NOT also be the same for punishment ?