Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
They get set free under a righteousness of faith in Christ, not one of obeying the law:
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
The legally binding law with the power to condemn.
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved Eph2:4&5
You can only be alive with Christ if you have faith he died for you at Calvary. For the christian only gets one righteousness/justification before God their whole life, faith in his Son. Without that, you remain unjustified. You are given the faith as a gift, but without it you cannot be made alive with Christ. You trust in Christ to cross over from being dead in sin/a slave to sin, into someone who is a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. It is what the sincere convert wants for they have been born again. With the power of sin removed/righteousness of obeying the law, you will lead a far more holy life:
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom6:14
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
The legally binding law with the power to condemn.
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved Eph2:4&5
You can only be alive with Christ if you have faith he died for you at Calvary. For the christian only gets one righteousness/justification before God their whole life, faith in his Son. Without that, you remain unjustified. You are given the faith as a gift, but without it you cannot be made alive with Christ. You trust in Christ to cross over from being dead in sin/a slave to sin, into someone who is a slave of righteousness leading to holiness. It is what the sincere convert wants for they have been born again. With the power of sin removed/righteousness of obeying the law, you will lead a far more holy life:
For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom6:14
-
2
- Show all
OK. So is your relationship ever in peril because of your frail human penchant to lapse or fail for whatever reason? That is the heart of the matter. In fact you might say that Peter BLEW his relationship on a human level several times. IMO the only reason Peter you or I prevail is because the power of God is the dynamic principle "keeping us saved".
Most (if not all) of Christs disciples were totally freaked out about the death of Jesus. What happened then? Jesus came TO THEM and strengthen them with unshakeable faith. Jesus knows His own and can lose none of us.
Furthermore, the doctrine of eternal security itself is underpinned by huge chunks of Scripture. And these from the mouth of Jesus Himself. You know them.....everybody does here. BTW....I am not a big fan of mere men declaring doctrine either, believe me. But some is provided in Scripture for our benefit.
So who is doing the phroureō here?
1Pe 1:5
Who are kept G5432 by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
G5432 phroureō
Jhn 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jhn 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
BTW.....salvation is the RESULT of a covenant made between the Father and the Son in eternity past. Which we had nothing whatsoever to do with. Something for you to think about.
Most (if not all) of Christs disciples were totally freaked out about the death of Jesus. What happened then? Jesus came TO THEM and strengthen them with unshakeable faith. Jesus knows His own and can lose none of us.
Furthermore, the doctrine of eternal security itself is underpinned by huge chunks of Scripture. And these from the mouth of Jesus Himself. You know them.....everybody does here. BTW....I am not a big fan of mere men declaring doctrine either, believe me. But some is provided in Scripture for our benefit.
So who is doing the phroureō here?
1Pe 1:5
Who are kept G5432 by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
G5432 phroureō
- to guard, protect by a military guard, either to prevent hostile invasion, or to keep the inhabitants of a besieged city from flight
- metaph.
- under the control of the Mosaic law, that he might not escape from its power
- to protect by guarding, to keep
- by watching and guarding to preserve one for the attainment of something
Jhn 17:11
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Jhn 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
BTW.....salvation is the RESULT of a covenant made between the Father and the Son in eternity past. Which we had nothing whatsoever to do with. Something for you to think about.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
No. The question should be "Do all men need a Savior? Yes or No?" If all have sinned, then all need a Savior.
ROMANS 5: 12-21: CHRIST vs ADAM
DEATH BY SIN CAME UPON ALL MEN
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
THEREFORE SALVATION IS A GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
ALL MEN MAY BE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE AND RECEIVE THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
BUT NOT ALL WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL SO THE WORD "MANY" IS USED
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
ROMANS 5: 12-21: CHRIST vs ADAM
DEATH BY SIN CAME UPON ALL MEN
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
THEREFORE SALVATION IS A GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
ALL MEN MAY BE JUSTIFIED BY GRACE AND RECEIVE THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
BUT NOT ALL WILL OBEY THE GOSPEL SO THE WORD "MANY" IS USED
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
No - all things pertaining to salvation are by the faith OF Christ. By Christ's faith.
V5 says "made us alive", when we were dead. A spiritually dead person is dead just like a physically dead person is dead. Neither
can do anything - whether spiritual or physical -of their own volition to remedy that condition.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
V5 says "made us alive", when we were dead. A spiritually dead person is dead just like a physically dead person is dead. Neither
can do anything - whether spiritual or physical -of their own volition to remedy that condition.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
-
1
- Show all
Now you are misunderstanding what is written, Paul constantly, all over the place states a persons justification/righteousness is faith in Christ, and from first to last:
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[f] Rom1:17
You must have faith in/of Christ
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[e] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[f] Rom1:17
You must have faith in/of Christ
-
1
- Show all
We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. NIV
-
1
- Show all
Then the questions are these: 1) if Jesus is that Saviour, then why aren't they all saved? There can be
no space between salvation and the salvation the Saviour provides. Should it depend upon anything outside of
Him then He isn't the Saviour - a Saviour must, by definition, be the one who saves.
2) If Christ is the Saviour of the world, then all men do have a Saviour, and therefore, they must become saved, right?
I don't think it is logically possible for it to be both ways - that for those whom He is the Saviour of
that they do not become saved.
no space between salvation and the salvation the Saviour provides. Should it depend upon anything outside of
Him then He isn't the Saviour - a Saviour must, by definition, be the one who saves.
2) If Christ is the Saviour of the world, then all men do have a Saviour, and therefore, they must become saved, right?
I don't think it is logically possible for it to be both ways - that for those whom He is the Saviour of
that they do not become saved.
-
2
- Show all
Nope - it is "OF" not "IN" -the faith part of the verse is in the genitive, indicating ownership. The part of the verse that says
"believed in Christ', is not to demonstrate the distinction.
This verse confirms that:
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
"believed in Christ', is not to demonstrate the distinction.
This verse confirms that:
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
