If "Soul Sleep" Is Correct Doctrine?
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Surely, you can't mean:
1Th 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so
them also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."
...surely not "them LIVING SOULS That Are With Him, In Heaven," Correct?
to be "re-united With their DEAD BODIES," in resurrection, right?
1Th 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so
them also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."
...surely not "them LIVING SOULS That Are With Him, In Heaven," Correct?
(When He Descends Toward earth)
to be "re-united With their DEAD BODIES," in resurrection, right?
Do skeletons look like they are asleep? People think soul sleep is correct when they see a semi-normal looking corpse, perhaps one who has died of natural causes, who look serene and appear to be "sleeping".
A skeletons doesn't look asleep. It looks like a bones and that's it. It's because the soul has vacated...either to be with the Lord or in torment in Hades.
A skeletons doesn't look asleep. It looks like a bones and that's it. It's because the soul has vacated...either to be with the Lord or in torment in Hades.
Most translations have the comma in the wrong spot-to mislead
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise= correct
Jesus was in Hades( grave)for 3 days, he could not be in paradise that day of his death. As well the bible is clear, the resurrection does not occur until after the tribulation and Gods day of anger.
Truly i tell you, today you will be with me in paradise=error
Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in paradise= correct
Jesus was in Hades( grave)for 3 days, he could not be in paradise that day of his death. As well the bible is clear, the resurrection does not occur until after the tribulation and Gods day of anger.
The first lie from the devil =
"You will not die"
When you teach that the soul does not die, you are teaching the same lie as the devil.
Death = death.
Perish = perish.
Dead = dead.
Don't twist the verses to mean something different.
The soul shall die.
But life comes from Jesus.
Don't teach that we have life in ourselves or that the life in us is unable to die.
God alone has immortality.
"You will not die"
When you teach that the soul does not die, you are teaching the same lie as the devil.
Death = death.
Perish = perish.
Dead = dead.
Don't twist the verses to mean something different.
The soul shall die.
But life comes from Jesus.
Don't teach that we have life in ourselves or that the life in us is unable to die.
God alone has immortality.
I believed that claim for quite a few years until I understood from Phil 2:6-8
that when the Word came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, he
checked his divinity at the door so he could arrive fully human only rather
than an amalgam of human and divine.
Since that's the case, then I believe it's okay to claim the Word is fully Man
and fully God, but I really don't think it's okay to allege the same for baby
Jesus. According to Phil 2:9-11 he's divine now, yes, but he wasn't divine
prior to crucifixion.
_
Soul sleep huh. What is peculiar about the soul sleep doctrine is that unlike all the other doctrines we have within Christianity or in cults, it has ZERO proof texts. I know none of us here (including me) practice baptizing people for the dead like the mormons do, but atleast that doctrine has SOME backing in the NT:
1 Cor 15:29 "Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? " (interesting verse might I add, I wonder why they were doing this and why wasnt Paul rebuking it? beats me, I should start a thread on it)
I took the time to go thru the entire Bible and find all the proof texts for soul sleep, this is what I got:
Thanks for reading! That concludes the list for soul sleep proof texts.
Now on the other hand, are there verses that CONTRADICT soul sleep? Sure, here is a few:
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Rev 6:9-10 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
The story of the rich man and Lazarus, where once the rich man dies he opens up his eyes in torment and FULLY AWARE of whats going on.
Now you soul sleep fellas tell me, how can the souls of those who were slain CRY OUT with a loud voice saying HOW LONG sovereign Lord until you judge the earth and avenge our blood? How can "sleeping souls" do that?
One last point, when the Bible says "such and such is sleeping" or "many sleep" or something, it means their body is dead.
1 Cor 15:29 "Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? " (interesting verse might I add, I wonder why they were doing this and why wasnt Paul rebuking it? beats me, I should start a thread on it)
I took the time to go thru the entire Bible and find all the proof texts for soul sleep, this is what I got:
Thanks for reading! That concludes the list for soul sleep proof texts.
Now on the other hand, are there verses that CONTRADICT soul sleep? Sure, here is a few:
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
Rev 6:9-10 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”
The story of the rich man and Lazarus, where once the rich man dies he opens up his eyes in torment and FULLY AWARE of whats going on.
Now you soul sleep fellas tell me, how can the souls of those who were slain CRY OUT with a loud voice saying HOW LONG sovereign Lord until you judge the earth and avenge our blood? How can "sleeping souls" do that?
One last point, when the Bible says "such and such is sleeping" or "many sleep" or something, it means their body is dead.
Ecc 9:
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
There are many more.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
Job 7:21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
Ps 30:9 What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
Ps 49:15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
There are many more.
I'd echo my original message: We aren't JUST a body, we have a body, soul AND spirit. The body dies and is asleep, soul is alive and well with the Lord.
But lets assume this is not the case, for argument's sake. Why would we wanna rest our case on PSALMS and ECCLESIASTES instead of plain new testament scriptures? Psalms being SONGS say all sorts of stuff, ever read the imprecatory psalms? Should we take those and say we should curse our enemies cause of it? No? Why not? New Covenant.
You are free to believe what you wish on this topic as I see this is as something that believing one way or another doesn't really make a difference at all in how we live our life or present the gospel. But could you respond to these new testament verses, how do those work with lets say, Ecc 9:5?
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. [This I have heard explained like this: You are dead, sleep, the very next moment you are aware you are in God's presence, that works for me, OK I get it]
Rev 6:9-10 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” [This one gonna be impossible to explain, here we have DEAD people, (souls) TALKING and saying something, one of many examples in the NT]
The story of the rich man and Lazarus, where once the rich man dies he opens up his eyes in torment and FULLY AWARE of whats going on. [Once again, kind of impossible to say this is soul sleep]
In my opinion (you are free to disagree friend, just saying my view here) these verses are IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile literally with Ecclesiates 9:5. Therefore, I take the view, that Ecclesiastes is talking about things "under the sun" as it says in the book. So that is the POV!
But lets assume this is not the case, for argument's sake. Why would we wanna rest our case on PSALMS and ECCLESIASTES instead of plain new testament scriptures? Psalms being SONGS say all sorts of stuff, ever read the imprecatory psalms? Should we take those and say we should curse our enemies cause of it? No? Why not? New Covenant.
You are free to believe what you wish on this topic as I see this is as something that believing one way or another doesn't really make a difference at all in how we live our life or present the gospel. But could you respond to these new testament verses, how do those work with lets say, Ecc 9:5?
2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. [This I have heard explained like this: You are dead, sleep, the very next moment you are aware you are in God's presence, that works for me, OK I get it]
Rev 6:9-10 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” [This one gonna be impossible to explain, here we have DEAD people, (souls) TALKING and saying something, one of many examples in the NT]
The story of the rich man and Lazarus, where once the rich man dies he opens up his eyes in torment and FULLY AWARE of whats going on. [Once again, kind of impossible to say this is soul sleep]
In my opinion (you are free to disagree friend, just saying my view here) these verses are IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile literally with Ecclesiates 9:5. Therefore, I take the view, that Ecclesiastes is talking about things "under the sun" as it says in the book. So that is the POV!