Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

[thomas64]

Mathew 5 verse 20 For I(JESUS) say to you, unless your rightousness exceeds the rightousness of the scribes and the pharisees, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Indeed, the pharisees neglected the love of God(Luke11:42)
They showed no love to their neighbours for they were guilty of hypocrisy, they demanded of others what they did not demand of themselves, and by so doing they crushed their neighbours. The two greatest commnadments upon which the entire law hung were ignored.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

If your a christian, You are not under the law period. You have been saved from the curse of the law

If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh but will do, by nature, the things that are contained in the Law. Rom.2:13, 3:1-2 and 30-31, 8:1-8 (specifically. vs.4)

I am not saying that we are under the Law, but I see that many do not think it is of much relevance to us as Gentiles. I see that a proper reading of Romans refutes this teaching and a right understanding makes the whole old and new testament make sense.

Most (in the flesh) do not want to do the business of putting things off and this is what they are really grappling with. Just as the verses I shared above say.

The Law is not made for the righteous (those that are doing what is contained in the Law, being led by the Spirit to do them.) but for the lawless and disobedient... 1Tim.1:9

Why is Paul talking about lawless people and disobedient? what Law? disobedient to what? look at the verse before. The Law is to be used lawfully, as a schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ for repentance and forgiveness.

Our new nature, if we are truly born again of the Spirit, will delight in the Law of God (Rom.7:22-25).

There is a lot of wrestling with the scriptures these days. God warned that there would be a great falling away before the Day of the LORD and that lawlessness would abound even to deceive the very elect if it were possible.

I hope all would seek the LORD carefully on this subject for it may cost many their soul. Many will say LORD, LORD... He will say depart from me ye workers of iniquity (meaning lawless).

I do not believe that we are Under the Law but by the Grace of GOD we will do by nature the things contained in the Law if we walk by the Spirit and not by the Flesh. 2Tim. 3:16-17

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh but will do, by nature, the things that are contained in the Law. Rom.2:13, 3:1-2 and 30-31, 8:1-8 (specifically. vs.4)

I am not saying that we are under the Law, but I see that many do not think it is of much relevance to us as Gentiles. I see that a proper reading of Romans refutes this teaching and a right understanding makes the whole old and new testament make sense.

Most (in the flesh) do not want to do the business of putting things off and this is what they are really grappling with. Just as the verses I shared above say.

The Law is not made for the righteous (those that are doing what is contained in the Law, being led by the Spirit to do them.) but for the lawless and disobedient... 1Tim.1:9

Why is Paul talking about lawless people and disobedient? what Law? disobedient to what? look at the verse before. The Law is to be used lawfully, as a schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ for repentance and forgiveness.

Our new nature, if we are truly born again of the Spirit, will delight in the Law of God (Rom.7:22-25).

There is a lot of wrestling with the scriptures these days. God warned that there would be a great falling away before the Day of the LORD and that lawlessness would abound even to deceive the very elect if it were possible.

I hope all would seek the LORD carefully on this subject for it may cost many their soul. Many will say LORD, LORD... He will say depart from me ye workers of iniquity (meaning lawless).

I do not believe that we are Under the Law but by the Grace of GOD we will do by nature the things contained in the Law if we walk by the Spirit and not by the Flesh. 2Tim. 3:16-17

the problem is the law was given to LEAD us to christ.

It was not written to LEAD us to sanctification

People who use the law as a means of christian growth will miss out on alot of things, because thats not why the law was given

 

[MessengerofTruth]

the problem is the law was given to LEAD us to christ.

It was not written to LEAD us to sanctification

People who use the law as a means of christian growth will miss out on alot of things, because thats not why the law was given

The Law was given as a Schoolmaster to reveal our transgression of the Law, so that we see our desperate need for a sacrifice and a help to do what the righteousness of the Law demands.

Which brings us to the Faith in the Blood that was spilled to cover the transgressions and the Spirit that fills us when we repent, or change our mind about how we have treated GOD and His Holy Law, and we become a new creation that is empowered to walk in the same Spirit that Jesus walked in and obeyed His Father.

I believe it is used by the Spirit of GOD to teach us doctrine, and to instruct us in righteousness, correcting and reproving us by it just as 2Tim. 3;16-17 states plainly.

I believe that we are good ministers of the gospel if we put the brethren in remembrance of what the whole scriptures state.

We must be careful these days not to get carried away with the lawlessness that is so prevalent today.

I'm not sure how old you are but I ask you to ask an older righteous person how it was when they were young. The 10 Commandments were taken literally. People kept Sunday strictly thinking it was in obedience to the 4th commandment. Now, most people I've talked to do not believe they are required to obey the 10 Commandments.

I have witnessed this in my lifetime and I see it as the fulfilling of what was warned. We are in the days of lawlessness.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Law was given as a Schoolmaster to reveal our transgression of the Law, so that we see our desperate need for a sacrifice and a help to do what the righteousness of the Law demands.

Which brings us to the Faith in the Blood that was spilled to cover the transgressions and the Spirit that fills us when we repent, or change our mind about how we have treated GOD and His Holy Law, and we become a new creation that is empowered to walk in the same Spirit that Jesus walked in and obeyed His Father.

I believe it is used by the Spirit of GOD to teach us doctrine, and to instruct us in righteousness, correcting and reproving us by it just as 2Tim. 3;16-17 states plainly.

I believe that we are good ministers of the gospel if we put the brethren in remembrance of what the whole scriptures state.

We must be careful these days not to get carried away with the lawlessness that is so prevalent today.

I'm not sure how old you are but I ask you to ask an older righteous person how it was when they were young. The 10 Commandments were taken literally. People kept Sunday strictly thinking it was in obedience to the 4th commandment. Now, most people I've talked to do not believe they are required to obey the 10 Commandments.

I have witnessed this in my lifetime and I see it as the fulfilling of what was warned. We are in the days of lawlessness.

I am 57.

You can't obey the law. However, if you want to be saved by your own works. that that is the standard you must keep.

If you have failed in one part. You are guilty and can not longer save yourself.

Thats what the law is supposed to do expose this fact, you are a sinner

The ten commands can not tell you how to act. They are not designed for that. Jesus tried to share this in his sermon on the mount. The law says... but I tell you.....

Thats why he gave us the law of love, to seek after the things of the spirit. That is how we learn obedience and how we learn to be like christ. and that was his example. He 100% of the time put others needs above his own. He loved them with true love that came from his father, who loved him.

The law will not help you be good. At most, it can make you think you are good. By the time you have actually broken a command, you have already sinned before you even commited the act.. Thats why you must get to the root problem, which is pride. and replace it with the love of others.

The law can not tell you how to do that. the law, as paul said, caused sin to increase...

 

[MessengerofTruth]

I am 57.

You can't obey the law. However, if you want to be saved by your own works. that that is the standard you must keep.

If you have failed in one part. You are guilty and can not longer save yourself.

Thats what the law is supposed to do expose this fact, you are a sinner

The ten commands can not tell you how to act. They are not designed for that. Jesus tried to share this in his sermon on the mount. The law says... but I tell you.....

Thats why he gave us the law of love, to seek after the things of the spirit. That is how we learn obedience and how we learn to be like christ. and that was his example. He 100% of the time put others needs above his own. He loved them with true love that came from his father, who loved him.

The law will not help you be good. At most, it can make you think you are good. By the time you have actually broken a command, you have already sinned before you even commited the act.. Thats why you must get to the root problem, which is pride. and replace it with the love of others.

The law can not tell you how to do that. the law, as paul said, caused sin to increase...

I hope that you would take the time to prayerfully consider each reference I shared.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I hope that you would take the time to prayerfully consider each reference I shared.

I hope you will prayerfully consider what I shared.

I grew up in a church that taught law and how we should live

I saw nothing but hardship failure and no growth.

Because they focused on somethign that was for the lost. not for what was for the found..

the law can not help you. Thats why paul said once we have been led to christ, we no longer have need of the schoolmaster..

 

[MessengerofTruth]

I hope you will prayerfully consider what I shared.

I grew up in a church that taught law and how we should live

I saw nothing but hardship failure and no growth.

Because they focused on somethign that was for the lost. not for what was for the found..

the law can not help you. Thats why paul said once we have been led to christ, we no longer have need of the schoolmaster..

I've not experienced what you have in church. But, I have seen individuals that uphold the Law, that I have personally known, (that I do not agree with on some doctrines) that have far more fruitful lives than most I've seen in the modern churches that teach the Law is not that relevant.

I only want to live and speak as the scriptures speak. I believe the scriptures I shared are within context and apply to those of us that have been born of the Spirit. I am a witness to the leading of the Spirit in this way. I do not seek to be justified in the Law, but as I sit under the reading of the Word, I hear the heart of GOD in His Law and in all the reciting of the history of the Saints. I have found great peace in obeying, from the heart, the things revealed in the Old Testament scriptures. They are profitable for doctrine and instruction in righteousness...

Jesus came, not only by loving people but also by instructing, and rebuking, in the ways of true righteousness. He magnified the Law and made it honorable, just as His Father prophesied of Him in Isaiah 42:20-24.

I do not wish to argue but, to put the brethren in remembrance of the Whole Counsel of GOD.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Are we to do both, keep the Law of Moses like Jesus, and keep Jesus words in red . Would that be exceeding the scribes and pharisees rightousness?

Sure - all you have to do is keep them PERFECTLY.

How's that working out for you???

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Sure - all you have to do is keep them PERFECTLY.

I would say that All you have to do is stay in fellowship with the Father, in the Spirit, by the Son to walk as Jesus walked in obedience to the known will of GOD, which He has made abundantly made available in the scriptures.

All scripture (Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Words in Red, the Apostles Doctrines) are profitable for Doctrine, Correction, Reproof, and Instruction in Righteousness that each one of us that have been born again may be thoroughly furnished unto all Good Works.

For we are not under the Law but under Grace. Grace teaches... to stay in step with the Father.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I would say that All you have to do is stay in fellowship with the Father, in the Spirit, by the Son to walk as Jesus walked in obedience to the known will of GOD, which He has made abundantly made available in the scriptures.

All scripture (Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Words in Red, the Apostles Doctrines) are profitable for Doctrine, Correction, Reproof, and Instruction in Righteousness that each one of us that have been born again may be thoroughly furnished unto all Good Works.

For we are not under the Law but under Grace. Grace teaches... to stay in step with the Father.

And since NOBODY HAS EVER kept the law perfectly (except for one) then FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to cleanse from SIN is the only way in.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would say that All you have to do is stay in fellowship with the Father, in the Spirit, by the Son to walk as Jesus walked in obedience to the known will of GOD, which He has made abundantly made available in the scriptures.

All scripture (Law, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Words in Red, the Apostles Doctrines) are profitable for Doctrine, Correction, Reproof, and Instruction in Righteousness that each one of us that have been born again may be thoroughly furnished unto all Good Works.

For we are not under the Law but under Grace. Grace teaches... to stay in step with the Father.

How did Jesus obey God

By keeping the law. And looking to the law

or by Loving others according to the law of Love?

 

[MessengerofTruth]

And since NOBODY HAS EVER kept the law perfectly (except for one) then FAITH in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross to cleanse from SIN is the only way in.

I am only trying to bring to the front what I believe has been put off, which is the relevance of the Law and the 10 Commandments. Not as the means of salvation but relevant to it in the deepening understanding of the will of GOD for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

 

[thomas64]

I am only trying to bring to the front what I believe has been put off, which is the relevance of the Law and the 10 Commandments. Not as the means of salvation but relevant to it in the deepening understanding of the will of GOD for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn. It’s important to remember that when reading romans.
In romans ch3:20-30 Paul explains the believer can have no righteousness before God of obeying the law, they have righteousness apart from law, their righteousness is faith in Christ. Paul maintains believers are justified apart from law. What would some of his readers have thought after reading those verses? ‘Well if we are righteous before God apart from obeying the law we can act however we like and remain saved.’ Paul of course would have known that, hence verse 31:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31
You have to be able to understand Paul’s message as one cohesive whole.
Paul stated:
Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS(not full stop) to everyone who believeth Rom10:4
For Paul also wrote:
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom7:12
The above is in relation to the moral law, or ten commandments.
So what was God to do? He obviously wouldn’t want to remove what is holy, just and good, but He also wanted to take away what condemned man. The law comes in two parts. What is written in the law, and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it’s the second part that's the problem. So God did an incredible thing, he abolished the law, in the sense of what we all understand law to mean. For he removed its condemnation by sending Christ to die for our sins. But He then transferred what is written in the law from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3) Paul states in rom ch2 the law(what is written in the law) is in believers hearts(Gentiles hearts was specifically mentioned).
So, by removing a legally binding law that condemns, the power of sin was also removed. But what is holy, just and good remains, it is now in believers hearts, meaning in believers hearts they do not want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet etc. That law cannot condemn you, for you have a saviour from your sin, the penalty of sin has been removed, but it does stop you having a licence to sin under grace, for in your heart you desire to live as God wants you to live, you want to live according to what has been placed in your heart, what is holy, just and good.
Therefore, with the power of sin removed from your life (the legally binding law with its power to condemn) you can now live far more as you in your heart want to live, for that is where what is holy, just and good now is. And so Paul states:
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom6:14
And so:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31
Therefore, you can have knowledge of sin through the law, without condemnation by the law, for righteousness of obeying the law has ended.

 

[thomas64]

When my mother, whom I dearly loved was told she was terminally ill, my wife and I went to look after her in her home during her illness. During that time, I put aside my own wants and desires, and simply wanted to aid my mother to have as much happiness as possible in the time she had left to live. It was a joy to me to be able to take her out for days to places she loved to go before the illness progressed to curtail these activities. Taking her to see her friends, and bringing them to see her made me so happy, to see the happiness it brought my mother. Nothing was too much trouble to do for her. One evening I was standing outside my mother’s home and I reflected on the fact I was living closer to the biblical ideal than I had ever previously lived. I did not covet what was my mothers, I didn’t want to murder or steal from her. I didn’t want to bear false witness against her, and I honoured her. Did I have to look to the written law/commandments and strive to obey them in order to treat my mother that way? No! I never once thought of any of those commands where my mother was concerned. So why was I obeying them? Because I loved my mother dearly. Love really is the fulfilment of the law.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

How did Jesus obey God

By keeping the law. And looking to the law

or by Loving others according to the law of Love?

By listening to His voice.

Love fulfills the Law, yes, But this is not the only requirement.

2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3.) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4.) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5.) But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Notice the Language in vs.2 is the same as 3:16 speaking obviously of the even the Old Testament Law and Prophets.

Notice also that Paul uses the same language in vs.3 speaking of sound doctrine as he uses in 1Tim 1:8-9 when teaching about the use of the Law.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

By listening to His voice.

Love fulfills the Law, yes, But this is not the only requirement.

2Tim. 4:2 Preach the Word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3.) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4.) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5.) But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Notice the Language in vs.2 is the same as 3:16 speaking obviously of the even the Old Testament Law and Prophets.

Notice also that Paul uses the same language in vs.3 speaking of sound doctrine as he uses in 1Tim 1:8-9 when teaching about the use of the Law.

Requirment?

If I love my wife, I will not sin against her
If I love my parents, I will honor them
if I love my neighbor, i wil not covet what they will have, I will praise God.

Love fulfills the law..

I do not need the law..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am only trying to bring to the front what I believe has been put off, which is the relevance of the Law and the 10 Commandments. Not as the means of salvation but relevant to it in the deepening understanding of the will of GOD for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.

The ten commands will not help anyone follow God..

that was not their purpose.

 

[MessengerofTruth]

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56 The legally binding law with the power to condemn. It’s important to remember that when reading romans.
In romans ch3:20-30 Paul explains the believer can have no righteousness before God of obeying the law, they have righteousness apart from law, their righteousness is faith in Christ. Paul maintains believers are justified apart from law. What would some of his readers have thought after reading those verses? ‘Well if we are righteous before God apart from obeying the law we can act however we like and remain saved.’ Paul of course would have known that, hence verse 31:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31
You have to be able to understand Paul’s message as one cohesive whole.
Paul stated:
Christ is the end of the law UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS(not full stop) to everyone who believeth Rom10:4
For Paul also wrote:
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom7:12
The above is in relation to the moral law, or ten commandments.
So what was God to do? He obviously wouldn’t want to remove what is holy, just and good, but He also wanted to take away what condemned man. The law comes in two parts. What is written in the law, and the attached penalty for transgression. Nothing wrong at all with the first part, it’s the second part that's the problem. So God did an incredible thing, he abolished the law, in the sense of what we all understand law to mean. For he removed its condemnation by sending Christ to die for our sins. But He then transferred what is written in the law from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3) Paul states in rom ch2 the law(what is written in the law) is in believers hearts(Gentiles hearts was specifically mentioned).
So, by removing a legally binding law that condemns, the power of sin was also removed. But what is holy, just and good remains, it is now in believers hearts, meaning in believers hearts they do not want to murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet etc. That law cannot condemn you, for you have a saviour from your sin, the penalty of sin has been removed, but it does stop you having a licence to sin under grace, for in your heart you desire to live as God wants you to live, you want to live according to what has been placed in your heart, what is holy, just and good.
Therefore, with the power of sin removed from your life (the legally binding law with its power to condemn) you can now live far more as you in your heart want to live, for that is where what is holy, just and good now is. And so Paul states:
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law/righteousness of obeying the law, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ. Rom6:14
And so:
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Rom3:31
Therefore, you can have knowledge of sin through the law, without condemnation by the law, for righteousness of obeying the law has ended.

I appreciate all you have shared here.

I am only trying to bring attention to the fact that I see many throwing aside the Law and not rightly understanding that it has not been done away.

The ordinances against us are done away. The Spirit of the Law is righteousness, am I right?