Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Everlasting-Grace]

That's the whole point - the unsaved are dead in their sin and completely unable to help themselves or do anything about it.

No, it is not nonsensical, you just are unable to recognize the parallel.
Read this verse and think about it. Do you see the "dead in your sins" part? Being dead means they can do nothing to bring themselves spiritual life just as in my example with the victim not being able to give himself physical life, so it is not nonsensical -in fact, just the reverse. That spiritual life must be given is why it is called being BORN-AGAIN - because until and unless that happens, we remain spiritually dead. If given, we have spiritual life. Being saved/born-again is the magical spiritual anti-venom.

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Recognize the parallel?

A dead person can do NOTHING!!

there is no parallel… You have a dead person that can walk, talk, sin, get married,. Do all kinds of stuff. They just can‘t confess what Paul said in romans 1 they already know.. because God has shown it to them, They can;t know what the HS was sent to convict them of. And they can;t respond to Gods call.

There is no parallel..

thats why My examples fit perfect. And yours do not

 

[rogerg]

lol. no, that is an awful example and is not biblical.

Jesus was sent to the lost. not to judge them, but to save them.

I do not know why you are so afraid to trust jesus and think this is you saving yourself.

Anyway, I thought we agreed to disagree.. You thinking is just to confusing and nonsensical. I will not change your mind that is obvious..

And you're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not say that those who are saved don't come to trust in Jesus -I said exactly the opposite - that to truly trust Him man must be first saved. In-and-of themselves, man cannot do that. Our point of disagreement is how trust occurs.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes.
What must be and is consistently ignored by the, I choose Christ doctrine, is 1 Corinthians 2.

Paul knows what he's talking about from personal experience.

Jesus found and changed Paul's natural mind when Paul was walking the Damascus road on his way to persecute more apostate Jews for leaving Judaism and turning to Jesus' gospel.

The idea that the natural mind calls out to God is contrary to 1 Corinthians 2. And yet, as is God's plan, that idea proves the truth of 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Isn't that wonderful? God uses all things for his purpose.

Wonderful?

God sends people to hell without even giving them a chance is wonderful?

God tells us to look up to the cross because we are dead. As moses lifted the serpent up. But we can;t look up.. and thats wonderful?

WOW

 

[rogerg]

A dead person can do NOTHING!!

Yes, a dead person can do NOTHING. Didn't you read that verse where it says "dead in sins" or did you not understand it?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And you're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not say that those who are saved don't come to trust in Jesus -I said exactly the opposite - that to truly trust Him man must be first saved. In-and-of themselves, man cannot do that. Our point of disagreement is how trust occurs.

I never said or insinuated what you just accused me of. You have bore false witness. I did not misrepresent you. You just proved you are not listening to a word I have said

 

[rogerg]

here is no parallel… You have a dead person that can walk, talk, sin, get married,. Do all kinds of stuff. They just can‘t confess what Paul said in romans 1 they already know.. because God has shown it to them, They can;t know what the HS was sent to convict them of. And they can;t respond to Gods call.

There is no parallel..

thats why My examples fit perfect. And yours do not

The parallel is between the spiritual and the physical, not the physical and the physical. You really don't understand, do you?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes, a dead person can do NOTHING. Didn't you read that verse where it says "dead in sins" or did you not understand it?

NOTHING!!!!!

do you not know what NOTHING IS?

In your view. A dead person can get married. Can give to the poor. Can honor their spouse by not committing adultry

Thats not dead my friend.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The parallel is between the spiritual and the physical, not the physical and the physical. You really don't understand, do you?

I understand what you are saying is nonsensical

A spiritually dead person is seperated from God. BECAUSE of sin

Your saying a person is made ALIVE in sin while still under the penalty

Nothing you are saying makes sense (unless you believe as you do)

 

[rogerg]

NOTHING!!!!!

do you not know what NOTHING IS?

In your view. A dead person can get married. Can give to the poor. Can honor their spouse by not committing adultry

Thats not dead my friend.

Oh, my! The parallel is the physical to the spiritual. What does marriage have to do with it?
Never mind, I'm sorry I asked.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Oh, my! The parallel is the physical to the spiritual. What does marriage have to do with it?
Never mind, I'm sorry I asked.

your the one using “death” as example. Don;t blame me because your example does not work.

I already explained what spiritually dead Means, and why we are dead.

You can;t see it. Because you won;t look at it

You can not be made ALIVE until sin is paid for

Justification MUST precede regeneration

There is no other way..

And your dead person example does not work

My examples work perfectly. A person lost, bancrupt in spirit, totally lost with no ability to save himself MUST stop working, and let God save them

Jesus came to heal the SICK.. the sick can get married, they can sin, they can do good.. They can know they are sick, and chose to follow the doctor who came to save them.

Its not hard..

 

[rogerg]

Your saying a person is made ALIVE in sin while still under the penalty

No, that is not what I'm saying - you have it wrong. I'm saying that everyone not saved/born again is spiritually dead, not spiritually alive in any spiritual sense and therefore unable to give themselves spiritual life.
They are spiritually dead, oblivious to things spiritual, and must be born-again to have spiritual life and a spiritual mind.

 

[rogerg]

your the one using “death” as example. Don;t blame me because your example does not work.

I already explained what spiritually dead Means, and why we are dead.

You can;t see it. Because you won;t look at it

You can not be made ALIVE until sin is paid for

Justification MUST precede regeneration

There is no other way..

And your dead person example does not work

My examples work perfectly. A person lost, bancrupt in spirit, totally lost with no ability to save himself MUST stop working, and let God save them

Jesus came to heal the SICK.. the sick can get married, they can sin, they can do good.. They can know they are sick, and chose to follow the doctor who came to save them.

Its not hard..

It is the way you think about it. Okay, you're just not getting it - fine.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, that is not what I'm saying - you have it wrong. I'm saying that everyone not saved/born again is spiritually dead, not spiritually alive in any spiritual sense and therefore unable to give themselves spiritual life.
They are spiritually dead, oblivious to things spiritual, and must be born-again to have spiritual life and a spiritual mind.

You need to listen to yourself. You just said the very thing I accused you of saying

A person who is dead must be made alive before they can have faith and be justified.

Thats wrong. Thats impossible. God will nto go against his justice..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is the way you think about it. Okay, you're just not getting it - fine.

Get what??

there is nothing to get.. A dead person can do NOTHING

don;t use a dead person as example to try to get someone to see it your way, when your person is not really dead they are alive, and can chose..

 

[rogerg]

You need to listen to yourself. You just said the very thing I accused you of saying

A person who is dead must be made alive before they can have faith and be justified.

Thats wrong. Thats impossible. God will nto go against his justice..

What does God willl not go agains His justice mean? Where did I say that He does that? Which verses do you have in mind?

I don't have much hope but try to understand this verse. They are not my words. Do you see the "dead in your sins"?

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[rogerg]

don;t use a dead person as example to try to get someone to see it your way, when your person is not really dead they are alive, and can chose..

THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN SIN

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What does God willl not go agains His justice mean? Where did I say that He does that? Which verses do you have in mind?

I don't have much hope but try to understand this verse. They are not my words. Do you see the "dead in your sins"?

[Col 2:13 KJV] 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Why are we dead? Can you answer this?

Is this not the JUSTICE of God declaring the penalty of sin? Do you agree?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN SIN

That just means they are seperated from God

if they stay seperated from God. They will be seperated eternally. This is the second death

it does not mean they can not chose

 

[rogerg]

Get what??

there is nothing to get.. A dead person can do NOTHING

don;t use a dead person as example to try to get someone to see it your way, when your person is not really dead they are alive, and can chose..

Okay, you're right, we're done.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Okay, you're right, we're done.

Lol.. so now you’re done and will not answer my last question after you brought me back into this??