Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
elect according to foreknowledge (omniscience)
far to many places in scripture says we come to God when we believe, and we do not come to God because of unbelief.

In jesus own words, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not is condemned already because they have not believed.

If calvinism is factually, these words are meaningless. In fact the whol second part of john 3 is nonsensical. Which I assume is why no one wants to go through and see what it really says
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The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
It doesn't answer my question. I know that God is omniscient.
I'm asking about the foreknowledge of God. According to the Bible, does the foreknowledge of God concern itself with WHAT God foreknew or WHO God foreknew?
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I already answered you

what was the will of the father in heaven

that everyone who sees and believes will be raised on the last day and non of them will be lost

That is the gospel message and the basis of election.

God KNEW who these people would be..
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Amen

And what draws people to God. What are we told to do to draw people to God?

Wait till God makes them alive, Or be a light shining in darkness so they can see their way to the light. and be saved..
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God draws people to Himself.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws.
 
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rogerg

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Everlasting-Grace said:
whats the difference?

If God elected them before the foundation of the world. Then chose them over a million other people. to make alive,

then something must occure that caused them to be saved.
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They were covered by Christ's offering. At a time of God choosing, those covered by it, are taken from under
the law of sin and death and are placed under law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
The issue isn't belief or unbelief. The issue is who is the cause of the belief.
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Thats not what Jesus said

He did not say the cause of belief is not condmened, and the cause of unbelieve is condemned already

COndemnation is hell my friend, it is eternal death

ONLY faith and those who see and believe are not condemned..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
God draws people to Himself.

No one comes to Jesus unless the Father draws.
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Yep

But God does not force..

Many are called but few are chosen.. He is willing that non should perish.

God draws in many ways, but we still have to make a decision.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
They were covered by Christ's offering. At a time of God choosing, those covered by it, are taken from under
the law of sin and death and are placed under law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
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then they were saved the moment jesus said it was finished.

They should have been born alive, not dead.


this is why I can not see it your way..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
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Was noah born again?
Was Abraham born again?
Was Moses born again?

When God went to abraham, Could abraham have said no?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
I already answered you

what was the will of the father in heaven

that everyone who sees and believes will be raised on the last day and non of them will be lost

That is the gospel message and the basis of election.

God KNEW who these people would be..
Click to expand...
Almost right. Not God knew...God chose.
 
R

rogerg

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Cameron143 said:
The opposite is actually true. People believe when God comes to them.

Did Noah seek out God?
Did Abraham seek out God?
Did Moses seek out God?

Romans 3...there is none that seek after God...
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Saul (Paul) too.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Was noah born again?
Was Abraham born again?
Was Moses born again?

When God went to abraham, Could abraham have said no?
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The reason He went was because He was bringing him life. God didn't go to anyone else in Ur. How many of them were redeemed? How many of them sought God out?

Consider Adam. Before sin, he walked daily with God. After sin, he hid from God. It took God going to him, sacrificing on his behalf, and clothing him in righteousness before he walked with God again. When God makes Himself known, He is already at work saving the person.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
The reason He went was because He was bringing him life. God didn't go to anyone else in Ur. How many of them were redeemed? How many of them sought God out?
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How many? I do not know. I was not there. Were you?

Consider Adam. Before sin, he walked daily with God. After sin, he hid from God. It took God going to him, sacrificing on his behalf, and clothing him in righteousness before he walked with God again. When God makes Himself known, He is already at work saving the person.
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yep. But adam still had to humble himself and say yes to God.. He could have said no thank you
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Huh?
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If Saul could not say no,

then God forced him

Thank you for proving me right..

I think it is time to move on.. talk about more important things, like the eternal security found only in Christ. The op has failed to disprove OSAS. I am still waiting for his proof.
 
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