Baptism for the dead (1 Cor 15:29)

Pilgrimshope · Feb 14, 2023

1 Corinthians 12:13 says “For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body.”

This is an elementary doctrine: a building block upon which we mature and grow. Not “elementary” as in “childish”, rather as first steps to understand the will of God.

This baptism, completed by the Spirit of God, Who knows the spirit of each person, is about knowing our destiny in God, known from the foundations of the world. This destiny is how God intends to live through us in time and space.

Understanding this, we would never have wondered if we had a ministry, we would have always known that we had a ministry and we would not simply settle for an adjunct of somebody else’s ministry. We would have always understood, then, that the leadership did not exist to articulate a ministry into which we could “fit”. But instead the leadership would exist to help us discover the ministry that God has for us and to assist us to take up that ministry and to walk in it. That being so, if we had seen that the baptism by the Spirit is our unique placement, by the Holy Spirit, into the body of Christ consistent with the will and plan of God, known for us from before the foundations of the world, then we would have also always known that there was only one body. And we would never consent to the division of the body because we would know that our personal role would be greatly enhanced, indeed would be fundamentally dependent upon, everybody else being who God made them to be.

In Jeremiah 1:4 this is written: “The word of the Lord came to me, saying, ‘Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

Paul would write: “But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man…”

Even Jesus would say “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”

And about us it is written “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”

The point is that our lives are determined by God and, according to the principle of “one body”, dependent upon the whole body for our maturity and growth.

This is the point of the passage of 1 Corinthians as Paul corrects divisions in the church

“Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14 Even so the body is not made up of one part but of many.”

And a bit later: “But God has put the body together…”

So, that placement of the members into the one body is completed by God via the Holy Spirit. Now, how can this be known?

By the Spirit also. Just like when the teachers and prophets were praying and the Spirit said “separate unto me Saul and Barnabas”…. and they became apostles and were recognized as apostles by the group.

Some times a person’s place is confirmed by another, as Paul did with Timothy and Titus. This is typically confirmed by the laying on of hands… another elementary doctrine.

That’s a good outline for now. I am limited to a tablet which makes it cumbersome to type. Perhaps I will add more tommorrow.

Grace and Peace

so again can you explain how one is baptized by the spirit ? I liked reading that but it’s not addressing what I asked

how is one baptized by the spirit ? This basic and simple thing you’re saying can you say it simply and basic ? Because I can’t make any sense out of what your saying there as to what I was asking

did jesus and his apostles partake of incorrect baptism ? And did Philip and Peter also practice a wrong baptism ?

i totally agree that baptism is ultra basic and well explained in scripture multiple times

Pilgrimshope · Feb 14, 2023

Aaron56 said:

So how many baptisms are there ?

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a you know how your seperating baptism between water and spirit into two baptisms ? There’s just one baptism

it’s like saying “ Jesus is one with God “ there’s one baptism that the church is taught to do nd Jesus promise to give us the Holy Spirit that’s not something we’re commanded to do it’s the result purely of the promise he made to send his spirit into the hearts of believers

This promise is where the “baptism “of the spirit comes from

“But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5, 7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Jesus was saying there is fulfilled

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All it means to be baptized of the spirit is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost that’s not a baptism we the church does for anyone the one baptism the church is commanded to do is the only baptism established in scripture

air is established by God I sent on purpose John the baptizer who was filled with the holt spirit from the womb and was sent by God to establish the only baptism we’ve ever been taught to perform for repentance and remission of sins

what john said is exactly this same message but using the term baptism rather than receiving the gift

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s just the one baptism I’m thinking you read this

“of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:2‬

And deduce this isn’t true

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

bit what that’s actually saying is “ when you do baptisms “ not as in several types of baptisms but many times a in many events

As in “when you perform baptisms” you should submerge in water and bounce the name of Jesus our lord “

not as in “ there are multiple types of baptisms “

We understand that because of the clarity of that statement there is one baptism

That should clarify by it says “ baptisms “ here

“the doctrine of baptisms,”

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

scripture interprets scripture rather than contradicting it

GaryA · Feb 15, 2023

SomeDisciple said:

Yes - it is a reference to a "what if" scenario in consideration of what is defined in the context of the passage - "if Christ is not risen" - like you are saying here.

The phrase 'for the dead' does not mean 'on behalf of' in the substitutionary sense of a 'live' person doing something for a 'dead' person; rather, it means something more on the order of 'because of' - i.e. - because of the death of Christ.

We baptize "for the sake of Christ" - as a representation of His death, burial, and resurrection.

Verse 29 is simply saying:

GaryA said:

It is pointing out the 'uselessness' of baptizing anyone "if Christ is not risen"...

GaryA · Feb 15, 2023

Matthew 26:

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 1:

4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:

3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts 2:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 3:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

In the phrase 'for the remission of sins', the word 'for' does not mean 'in order to get'; rather, it means something more on the order of 'because of' / 'for the cause of' / 'for the sake of'.

Yes - there is an element of 'so that remission of sins may be had'; however, it is not in the sense of 'do this in order to obtain remission of sins'.

Look very carefully at the wording in the first and last verses above.

Aaron56 · Feb 15, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Ah, I see.

Hebrews 6 “Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary doctrines of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.”

There are 4 baptisms: in water, of fire, by the Spirit, with the Spirit. And notice these are “elementary doctrines of Christ” of of Jews. These are principles for the body of Christ.

We have made “baptize” a religious word. In the Greek it is a common word.

If you want to clean a table you would take a rag and baptize or immerse it into a bit of water. Now that the rag is baptized and it has taken up the water its ability to clean is enhanced.

We are baptized by the Spirit into one body, i.e. we are placed into the one body by God. Our place and function are determined by Him. This occurs when we are born again. Well, our place in God is actually restored to us when we are born again. Now, that is not to say we begin walking in the way God has for us on the outset. No, we suffer many things (this is the baptism of fire at the hand of one who loves us, Christ) so that we learn obedience. It was 14 years before Paul, chosen in God before he was born to be an apostle, was released as an apostle.

The “one baptism” Paul references in 1 Corinthians 12 is baptism by the Spirit. “For you were baptized by the Spirit into one body.“. Not “baptized by so and so into water”. He is condemning sectarianism among the members of the body. This is the one baptism, the elementary doctrine, that allows no place for sectarianism.

Aaron56 · Feb 15, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

So how many baptisms are there ?

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a you know how your seperating baptism between water and spirit into two baptisms ? There’s just one baptism

it’s like saying “ Jesus is one with God “ there’s one baptism that the church is taught to do nd Jesus promise to give us the Holy Spirit that’s not something we’re commanded to do it’s the result purely of the promise he made to send his spirit into the hearts of believers

This promise is where the “baptism “of the spirit comes from

“But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭16:5, 7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What Jesus was saying there is fulfilled

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:32-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All it means to be baptized of the spirit is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost that’s not a baptism we the church does for anyone the one baptism the church is commanded to do is the only baptism established in scripture

air is established by God I sent on purpose John the baptizer who was filled with the holt spirit from the womb and was sent by God to establish the only baptism we’ve ever been taught to perform for repentance and remission of sins

what john said is exactly this same message but using the term baptism rather than receiving the gift

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s just the one baptism I’m thinking you read this

“of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:2‬

And deduce this isn’t true

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

bit what that’s actually saying is “ when you do baptisms “ not as in several types of baptisms but many times a in many events

As in “when you perform baptisms” you should submerge in water and bounce the name of Jesus our lord “

not as in “ there are multiple types of baptisms “

We understand that because of the clarity of that statement there is one baptism

That should clarify by it says “ baptisms “ here

“the doctrine of baptisms,”

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”

scripture interprets scripture rather than contradicting it

And yet “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.” There are two in one sentence.

Water immersion does not place us in the body of Christ. That is done by the Holy Spirit. We are baptized into one body. In this baptism the medium into which we’re immersed is the body of Christ.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is accomplished by Christ. He immerses us within the Spirit and we receive power.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

your always appreciated brother

this is your idea

“There are 4 baptisms:”

This is an apostles understanding

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭

It’s always good to agree with what is in scripture because it’s really easy for us if we don’t have that foundation to start teaching and believing things that are actually coming from our own reason and thinking that actually disagree with what is actually taught by Jesus and his apostles

and yes this was what I was saying you must have read and thoughts there are several baptisms

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary doctrines of Christ, let us go on to perfection,

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms,

of laying on of hands,of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.”

one of the clearest points in doctrine about baptism is that there’s one baptism

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism, “

And look at that whole statement how decisive and clear it is about each subject in the statement

“There is one body,

and one Spirit,

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

one Lord,

one faith,

one baptism,

one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If I were to make the argument to you about any of those subjects if I said

There are three bodies of Christ and then explained and explained how there are three I’d be wrong in my conclusion no matter how good it sounded to me

If I argued to you “ there are actually three Gods and nOt one or if I said there are several Lords of Christians , if I said well there are Many different faiths meant in every case I’m going to be clearly wrong in my conclusion because of the clarity of the statement made by a chosen and appointed apostle and revelator of the One Lord

you should consider that there’s one baptism and there’s a ton of doctrine about how it applies and what it means here’s a few examples of what baptism into Christ for remission of sins means

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there isn’t two different baptisms mentioned there it’s explaining the one and only baptism to the hearer and what it means to thier faith

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,

wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

These are three examples of the doctrine of baptism singular the one and only baptism

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

“There are two in one sentence.”

Its this same thing

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( that’s what John calls baptism of the spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was saying “ I baptize you with water for remission of sins , he who comes after me will give you the holy spirit”

It’s just that he used the term baptism brother literally John is John the baptizer sent of God to prepare people for Jesus

All John was saying is he was baptizing them for remission but they had to believe in Jesus to receive the Holy Spirit

Its the same point Jesus made after John was arrested but again he doesn’t use the term “ baptism like John did Jesus uses the term “born of “

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter he uses even a different term to say the same thing they were talking about later when it was coming to pass

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( water )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” ( spirit )
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You seem hung up on what John said there . this is Jesus after he raised up before he went home , explaining that statement your referencing

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See how he says you’ll be baptized with the Holy Ghost in a few days ? It’s a reference to receiving the holy spirit this is that statement from John coming to pass ( the fire and spirit baptism you are quoting is receiving the holy spirit )

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s being baptized by spirit it’s simply another way to say “ you will receive the Holy Ghost “ it isn’t a second form of baptism practice or any such thing it’s when Jesus gives you his spirit John just called it baptism

“Water immersion does not place us in the body of Christ.”

you mean the one baptism established in the Bible doesn’t place us in the body of Christ ?

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

that’s why you are placed under the water and raised up from it your being baptized into the body of Christ who died , was buried , and rose it’s an act of faith believing the gospel.

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s what makes up one body

they are partaking in the bodily death and resurrection of Jesus by faith

when John said “ he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit “ it’s saying “ he will give you the gift of the holy spirit , he isn’t freedom fan second baptism doctrine at all it was johns way of telling them Jesus was the one to believe in and he would give them his spirit he understood it because of prophecy

Being baptized of the spirit by Jesus is also here but the prophet Joel uses yet another way to say it “ I will pour out my spirit “

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:16-18, 21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The apostle Paul has it absolutely correct when he says there is on lord one faith one baptism ect

baptism just has really deep meaning but the church is commanded to perform only one baptism

what jesus does giving us his spirit is something only he does or can do for a believer it’s a free gift given liberally to anyone who believes you don’t have to get baptized in water to receive the Holy Spirit that’s because you believe the gospel Jesus preached baptism is about remission of sins in Christ who died for our sins

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

“Baptism with the Holy Spirit is accomplished by Christ. He immerses us within the Spirit and we receive power.”

exactly it’s not something we the church does it’s not a doctrine of baptism it’s a reference to receiving the holy spirit which empowers us to live upright lives a gift freely given by Jesus only

The one baptism is really well explained as being baptized into Christs death for remission of our sins there’s no sin in Christs body everyone who is in his body needs to have remission of sins

receiving the Holy Ghost isn’t about remission of sins this is a group bieng “baptized “ or in other words receiving the free gift of the spirit this is how we receive the spirit

“And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ( they have now been “baptized “ in the spirit “

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

( now Peter commands these gentiles to be baptized in water the established doctrine of baptism for remission of sins just as Jesus and the believing Jews were before )

Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:39-40, 42-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If John Baptist was saying that he would have said “ they all who heard the word were baptized in the Holy Ghost and then he commanded them to be baptized in water for repentance remission of sins “

John simply spoke differently regarding receiving the Holy Spirit but the one baptism is the established doctrine for repentance and remission of sins

Cameron143 · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

You didn't really think explaining the doctrine of baptism on this site would be easy, did you?

maxwel · Feb 15, 2023

Locoponydirtman said:

Paul did not "correct" the teaching.

He merely used this teaching, this belief, as a stepping stone to make a more important point.

How It Worked:
He took this teaching, a belief some of them held, and then used it to establish a contradiction with other views they held... thus showing contradictions in their thinking, and proving some of their beliefs must be false.
Very clever logical arguing from Paul.
It's called a coherency argument.
Paul was very smart, and very well educated.
He was always making very clever arguments, to point out contradictions in people's own thinking.

How Christians use the same technique today:
- An atheist might tell me morals are relative, and there is no moral right and wrong, and therefore nothing is truly "wrong." Then he might claim, "Because you go around trying to judge right and wrong, that makes YOU very very WRONG!"
- I would then say, "If there is no such thing as moral right and wrong... then how can I ever be wrong... if moral "wrong" doesn't exist?
- In this instance, I did NOT agree with the other person's initial premise, it was false... but I still used his false premise to prove contradictions in his thinking.

This isn't complicated.
- You simply start with someone's own position on a thing, and show how that view contradicts other views they hold... thus showing that because their beliefs are contradictory, some of their beliefs must be false.

Have a lovely week.

.

Cameron143 · Feb 15, 2023

maxwel said:

Paul did not "correct" the teaching.

He merely used this teaching, this belief, as a stepping stone to make a more important point.

How It Worked:
He took this teaching, a belief some of them held, and then used it to establish a contradiction with other views they held... thus showing contradictions in their thinking, and proving some of their beliefs must be false.
Very clever logical arguing from Paul.
It's called a coherency argument.
Paul was very smart, and very well educated.
He was always making very clever arguments, to point out contradictions in people's own thinking.

How Christians use the same technique today:
- An atheist might tell me morals are relative, and there is no moral right and wrong, and therefore nothing is truly "wrong." Then he might claim, "Because you go around trying to judge right and wrong, that makes YOU very very WRONG!"
- I would then say, "If there is no such thing as moral right and wrong... then how can I ever be wrong... if moral "wrong" doesn't exist?
- In this instance, I did NOT agree with the other person's initial premise, it was false... but I still used his false premise to prove contradictions in his thinking.

This isn't complicated.
- You simply start with someone's own position on a thing, and show how that view contradicts other views they hold... thus showing that because their beliefs are contradictory, some of their beliefs must be false.

Have a lovely week.

.

It isn't complicated to lay out. It is still difficult for many to either see or alter their incongruities.

Aaron56 · Feb 15, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Pilgrimshope is a truth seeker, not an arguer. :heart:

I believe, once we see there are 4 baptisms, many positions about baptisms clear up.

Aaron56 · Feb 15, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

your always appreciated brother

this is your idea

“There are 4 baptisms:”

This is an apostles understanding

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭

It’s always good to agree with what is in scripture because it’s really easy for us if we don’t have that foundation to start teaching and believing things that are actually coming from our own reason and thinking that actually disagree with what is actually taught by Jesus and his apostles

and yes this was what I was saying you must have read and thoughts there are several baptisms

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary doctrines of Christ, let us go on to perfection,

not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms,

of laying on of hands,of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.”

one of the clearest points in doctrine about baptism is that there’s one baptism

“one Lord, one faith, one baptism, “

And look at that whole statement how decisive and clear it is about each subject in the statement

“There is one body,

and one Spirit,

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

one Lord,

one faith,

one baptism,

one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If I were to make the argument to you about any of those subjects if I said

There are three bodies of Christ and then explained and explained how there are three I’d be wrong in my conclusion no matter how good it sounded to me

If I argued to you “ there are actually three Gods and nOt one or if I said there are several Lords of Christians , if I said well there are Many different faiths meant in every case I’m going to be clearly wrong in my conclusion because of the clarity of the statement made by a chosen and appointed apostle and revelator of the One Lord

you should consider that there’s one baptism and there’s a ton of doctrine about how it applies and what it means here’s a few examples of what baptism into Christ for remission of sins means

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there isn’t two different baptisms mentioned there it’s explaining the one and only baptism to the hearer and what it means to thier faith

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,

wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

These are three examples of the doctrine of baptism singular the one and only baptism

There is one baptism that creates one body of Christ: the baptism by the Spirit. This was Paul’s point.

Being immersed in fire, being immersed in water, and being immersed in the Holy Spirit, are not the baptisms that create one body. The Holy Spirit creates one body through the baptism by the Holy Spirit.

No believer is left out of the baptism by the spirit. All who are born again, are set within the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Even if one has not received the baptism of fire, or the baptism of water, or the baptism that brings power (the baptism of the Holy Spirit completed by Christ) they have all been baptized into the body, one body.

Cameron143 · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

I definitely agree with you about Pilgrimshope. To go from 1 to 2 isn't easy. 1 to 4...I don't think even Vegas would give odds.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Aaron56 said:

There is one baptism that creates one body of Christ: the baptism by the Spirit. This was Paul’s point.

Being immersed in fire, being immersed in water, and being immersed in the Holy Spirit, are not the baptisms that create one body. The Holy Spirit creates one body through the baptism by the Holy Spirit.

No believer is left out of the baptism by the spirit. All who are born again, are set within the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Even if one has not received the baptism of fire, or the baptism of water, or the baptism that brings power (the baptism of the Holy Spirit completed by Christ) they have all been baptized into the body, one body.

alright

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Cameron143 said:

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its pretty difficult to get to two for me

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬

The eunuch believed and was baptized in water for remission of sins in other words Philip was doing this as Jesus taught them

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If there’s one baptism Paul’s not talking about anything but the same baptism Paul received , all the apostles received , jesus received , and the people after received Jesus partook of baptism also

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5, 9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice the common threads belief and baptism in water for remission of sins

baptism is established well

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭

another th re is one baptism which they all partook of in water or there’s four or seven or eight baptisms the Bible says there’s one that’s repeatedly shown clearly in scripture

aim sort of just a basic believer I don’t try to go beyond what’s written if Paul concluded here’s one baptism there’s one baptism And receiving the holy spirit is a gift freely given of Jesus to believers

Cameron143 · Feb 15, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its pretty difficult to get to two for me

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.

And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬

The eunuch believed and was baptized in water for remission of sins in other words Philip was doing this as Jesus taught them

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If there’s one baptism Paul’s not talking about anything but the same baptism Paul received , all the apostles received , jesus received , and the people after received Jesus partook of baptism also

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5, 9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice the common threads belief and baptism in water for remission of sins

baptism is established well

“which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭

another th re is one baptism which they all partook of in water or there’s four or seven or eight baptisms the Bible says there’s one that’s repeatedly shown clearly in scripture

aim sort of just a basic believer I don’t try to go beyond what’s written if Paul concluded here’s one baptism there’s one baptism And receiving the holy spirit is a gift freely given of Jesus to believers

Hey brother. Always a privilege for me to chat with you.
I would never have the courage to undergo trying to explain baptism online. But since our brother Aaron56 has, let me say I do agree with what he has shared. But an explanation would require for me a different setting to explain.
I couldn't even explain the difference between justice and fairness to people on this site. And I have some who debate me here even when we agree on the topic. So I'm hardly the one to tackle this.
Perhaps 1 thing you might find helpful is the term one faith. That term is designating to the Christian faith one set of beliefs...a common set of truths or doctrine. But faith is also used to describe our actions in response God's word...we exercise faith. The same word with different meaning and application. In like manner, the word baptism is used to denote different meaning and application.
Hope that may help in some small way.

Pilgrimshope · Feb 15, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Yeah brother everyone seems to have thier own views and I certainly respect Aaron and you

Id say I have to agree with what Paul the apostle said. And say the baptism that is established in the everlasting gospel is that one baptism.

“There is one body,

and one Spirit,

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

one Lord,

one faith,

one baptism,

one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That makes it impossible for me to say there are two baptisms or three baptisms when he says there’s one baptism that means there is t two or three of even four but there’s one.

Paul is an apostle of Jesus , the apostles were the ones who were to explain the mysteries of the gospel Jesus preached.

Im just really at a loss how we can read Paul’s very plain statement theres “one baptism “ just as there is one God , one faith , one Lord

and then say there are two baptisms , to me it means we can’t accept what is really plain the epistles aren’t creating things for us to interpret but to accept and learn and believe

See John the Baptist was called and sent by to establish baptism for remission Of sins

He isn’t an apostle to the church but the last prophet of the Old Testament his mission isn’t to preach the gospel but to establish baptism which is this

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is simple paul clearly without dispute says “ there’s one baptism “ my point is Jesus , and all the people in the gospel but for the Pharisees who didn’t believe , ll were baptized with that baptism the one God sent “john the baptizer “ to establish in preparation for Christ

It’s even established in prophecy and then the gospel quotes those prophets and explains John is the fulfillment of it

I love and again respect both of your rights to your view on baptism or any subject but ot doesn’t trouble either of you that every Christian in the Bible partook of baptism for remission of sins and Paul says there’s one baptism ?

It doesn’t give either of you pause to hear an apostle say “ there’s one baptism “ and come to a conclusion hat there are four different baptisms ? If any apostle taught “ there are four baptisms , that would be my position also

Rether than explain it can either of you show me an apostle sent to preach the gospel teaching that there are several baptisms ?

Thats what it would take for me to move off of what Paul said so simply and plainly it isn’t riddle or mystery he’s saying there he’s making a statement “ there’s one baptism “

I would conclude there’s one baptism only because that’s what is plainly written down it’s what Paul was teaching them

Can we at least agree that Paul the apostle clearly without dispute says there’s one baptism ?

That would be very agreeable just to agree that Paul wrote this ? Or is that also controversial as to what Paul’s written

Did Paul the apostle write this and is it just to simple to not understand what it means

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think of what he’s saying there about “ one “ like this

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So water baptism and spiritual baptism are of one is my point

There’s only one action for us to do ( doctrine ) here and then There’s something Jesus does keeping his promise of the holy ghost

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( remember that’s baptism in water eerablisked by John )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

Do you see what I’m saying ? The doctrine of baptism is established repeatedly that’s why I quoted so many events where the apostles baptized people in water just like John the Baptist had baptized them

So when we say “ baptism in water isn’t the one baptism “ it would mean either Paul is wrong when he said there’s one baptism , or they were all practicing some foreign baptism in water and these another three baptisms that no one ever taught in scripture

except for John who was a Baptist before the church and not an apostle and teacher of doctrine like Paul

It just boggles my own mind how we would come to a four baptism conclusion especially then two of you who normally would never come to conclusions that aren’t in the Bible

But it’s lord of a comical mind boggling and not at all to argue with either of you two of my favorites here

insuppose we’re just at an impass I have to by conscience stick to what is plainly taught in scripture so as not to go beyond what’s written another thing that’s pretty plan which Paul said

“Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That sort of binds me to what’s written

i I do say this truthfully from
My heart though you two could simply be well Beyond what I’m able To understand of baptism

aim pretty basic in tbat I try tomlewrn from what’s there and not really go beyond what’s there

anyways to both of you , I appreciate the conversation and excellent brotherly spirit as usual

Cameron143 · Feb 15, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Yeah brother everyone seems to have thier own views and I certainly respect Aaron and you

Id say I have to agree with what Paul the apostle said. And say the baptism that is established in the everlasting gospel is that one baptism.

“There is one body,

and one Spirit,

even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

one Lord,

one faith,

one baptism,

one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That makes it impossible for me to say there are two baptisms or three baptisms when he says there’s one baptism that means there is t two or three of even four but there’s one.

Paul is an apostle of Jesus , the apostles were the ones who were to explain the mysteries of the gospel Jesus preached.

Im just really at a loss how we can read Paul’s very plain statement theres “one baptism “ just as there is one God , one faith , one Lord

and then say there are two baptisms , to me it means we can’t accept what is really plain the epistles aren’t creating things for us to interpret but to accept and learn and believe

See John the Baptist was called and sent by to establish baptism for remission Of sins

He isn’t an apostle to the church but the last prophet of the Old Testament his mission isn’t to preach the gospel but to establish baptism which is this

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.

The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is simple paul clearly without dispute says “ there’s one baptism “ my point is Jesus , and all the people in the gospel but for the Pharisees who didn’t believe , ll were baptized with that baptism the one God sent “john the baptizer “ to establish in preparation for Christ

It’s even established in prophecy and then the gospel quotes those prophets and explains John is the fulfillment of it

I love and again respect both of your rights to your view on baptism or any subject but ot doesn’t trouble either of you that every Christian in the Bible partook of baptism for remission of sins and Paul says there’s one baptism ?

It doesn’t give either of you pause to hear an apostle say “ there’s one baptism “ and come to a conclusion hat there are four different baptisms ? If any apostle taught “ there are four baptisms , that would be my position also

Rether than explain it can either of you show me an apostle sent to preach the gospel teaching that there are several baptisms ?

Thats what it would take for me to move off of what Paul said so simply and plainly it isn’t riddle or mystery he’s saying there he’s making a statement “ there’s one baptism “

I would conclude there’s one baptism only because that’s what is plainly written down it’s what Paul was teaching them

Can we at least agree that Paul the apostle clearly without dispute says there’s one baptism ?

That would be very agreeable just to agree that Paul wrote this ? Or is that also controversial as to what Paul’s written

Did Paul the apostle write this and is it just to simple to not understand what it means

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think of what he’s saying there about “ one “ like this

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So water baptism and spiritual baptism are of one is my point

There’s only one action for us to do ( doctrine ) here and then There’s something Jesus does keeping his promise of the holy ghost

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, ( remember that’s baptism in water eerablisked by John )

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38

Do you see what I’m saying ? The doctrine of baptism is established repeatedly that’s why I quoted so many events where the apostles baptized people in water just like John the Baptist had baptized them

So when we say “ baptism in water isn’t the one baptism “ it would mean either Paul is wrong when he said there’s one baptism , or they were all practicing some foreign baptism in water and these another three baptisms that no one ever taught in scripture

except for John who was a Baptist before the church and not an apostle and teacher of doctrine like Paul

It just boggles my own mind how we would come to a four baptism conclusion especially then two of you who normally would never come to conclusions that aren’t in the Bible

But it’s lord of a comical mind boggling and not at all to argue with either of you two of my favorites here

insuppose we’re just at an impass I have to by conscience stick to what is plainly taught in scripture so as not to go beyond what’s written another thing that’s pretty plan which Paul said

“Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That sort of binds me to what’s written

i I do say this truthfully from
My heart though you two could simply be well Beyond what I’m able To understand of baptism

aim pretty basic in tbat I try tomlewrn from what’s there and not really go beyond what’s there

anyways to both of you , I appreciate the conversation and excellent brotherly spirit as usual

I certainly agree with everything the Apostle Paul says and I respect your position.
Again, always a pleasure.

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