Past sins forgiven

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
.



The letter to Hebrews was addressed to folks whose association with God is
governed by the covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy; wherein is stated:


"But the person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the
Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has
spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person
shall be cut off-- he bears his guilt. (Num 15:30-31)


There are no atonements in the Levitical system for scofflaws; and yet
David was one of those very kinds of offenders in his premeditated sins of
adultery and murder with Bathsheba. Where's David today; in Hell? No, he's
not in Hell because God wiped David's criminal history by transferring his
willful sins to the cross. (Isa 53:6, Rom 3:23-26, Acts 13:38-39)
_
This is true but David paid a very high price for his sin, his life was full of tragedy and vexation thereafter ... and this is the answer to people who sin wilfully against grace.
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
670
113
Australia
God is willing to totally forgive those he already loves
A prayer of David

Psalm 86:5 KJV
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee.
1 John 1:9 KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
670
113
Australia
Hebrews 10:1,8-9 KJV
For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[8] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein ; which are offered by the law;
[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that Jesus did
in fact mention a new covenant despite your claim to the contrary.
There's problems with the passage - Jesus seminar large number of scholars, who examined the words attributed to Jesus come to the conclusion more then 80% of the words are not his. It would also go against God who does not accept sacrifice & Jesus said only came to the lost sheep of Israel and came not to change a 'jot'.
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
God has provided the only acceptable sacrifice, why then would he require any more, especially any that could never meet the perfect qualifications anyway? Muslims are permitted to lie for whatever reason, and deceive for whatever purpose, I'm not that studied in the protocol. But I understand they cannot ever be sure of their spiritual status? Is that true?
As quoted above and #44 - God does not accept sacrifice so woudl not have his son sacrificed
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
Jesus said he did not come to change a 'jot' of what came before.
But that's not actually what Jesus said, is it?

Matthew 5:18, (KJV): For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Doesn't say anything about changing things or not here. But it does seem to imply that the Law is going to be fulfilled.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
Luke 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”

yet at 20 Jesus allegedly takes the cup again.

Luke was a follower / taught by Paul - he like Paul never met Jesus - obviously mentioned in Mark & Matthew - goes back to was Jesus sacrificed - God clearly states he does not like sacrifice. YET HE SHOULD SACRIFICE JESUS


Matthew 9:13 - 13 But go and learn what this means: ***I desire mercy, not sacrifice*** For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Psalm 40:6 - 6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire but my ears you have opened burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.

Deuteronomy 12:31 - 31 You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. (Proverbs 21:3)

Ezekiel 23:36-37 - 36 The LORD said to me: “Son of man, will you judge Oholah and Oholibah? Then confront them with their detestable practices, 37 for they have committed adultery and blood is on their hands. They committed adultery with their idols; ***they even sacrificed their children, whom they bore to me, as food for them***

You seem to be playing fast and loose with Scriptures here... It does not merely say that God does not want Sacrifice:

Psalm 51:
16For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and a contrite heart,
O God, You will not despise.

These are the types of Sacrifice that Jesus gave, see.
Still, He was operating under the Old Covenant, so a blood Sacrifice was required to fulfil the Law.
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
670
113
Australia
You seem to be playing fast and loose with Scriptures here... It does not merely say that God does not want Sacrifice:

Psalm 51:
16For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and a contrite heart,
O God, You will not despise.

These are the types of Sacrifice that Jesus gave, see.
Still, He was operating under the Old Covenant, so a blood Sacrifice was required to fulfil the Law.
It was just like these days, going to church on Sunday but not walking with God.

Sacrifices were necessary back then, but they were supposed to walk with God also.

2 Kings 17:33 KJV
They feared the Lord, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.

Was God saying that all your sacrifices are pointless because you are not walking with me.
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
You seem to be playing fast and loose with Scriptures here... It does not merely say that God does not want Sacrifice:

Psalm 51:
16For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it;
You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and a contrite heart,
O God, You will not despise.

These are the types of Sacrifice that Jesus gave, see.
Still, He was operating under the Old Covenant, so a blood Sacrifice was required to fulfil the Law.
fulfil the law - Jesus or the OT doesn't say with his blood sacrifice
 

Underwhosewings

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2023
1,318
670
113
Australia
fulfil the law - Jesus or the OT doesn't say with his blood sacrifice
Leviticus 17:1 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 17:11 KJV
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
Leviticus 17:1 KJV
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

Leviticus 17:11 KJV
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
This relates to animals and to be precise the prohibition of 'consuming blood'. This doesn't provide OT evidence Jesus was sacrificed for our sins. Actually, goes against eating his flesh & drinking his blood. Pagan rituals.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
fulfil the law - Jesus or the OT doesn't say with his blood sacrifice
Surely you jest?
The Old Testament is full of information about blood-sacrifice. And we are also told of how many things are a shadow/type of things to come... Jesus.
Also, Jesus talks about the need for Him to lay down His life.
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
Surely you jest?
The Old Testament is full of information about blood-sacrifice. And we are also told of how many things are a shadow/type of things to come... Jesus.
Also, Jesus talks about the need for Him to lay down His life.
'Jesus talks about the need for Him to lay down His life.' - show me any evidence / passages
 
Jan 30, 2023
48
2
8
Ted01 - was going to show the evidence from OT that;

'Jesus talks about the need for Him to lay down His life.'
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
447
83
'Jesus talks about the need for Him to lay down His life.' - show me any evidence / passages
John 10:7-18 (ESV)
7 So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13 He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,818
1,073
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
.
This is true but . . .

According to Acts 2:29-30, David was prophet. As such he knew things
about Christ (1Pet 1:10-11) and no doubt one of the things he knew before
any of us knew it was this:

"I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent
me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they
have already passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

I'm positive David took advantage of Christ because he wrote:

"Blessed is the man whose sin The Lord will never count against him". (Rom
4:8)

Within the terms and conditions of the covenant that Moses' people agreed
upon with God in the Old Testament there is forgiveness, cleansing, and
pardon, but there is no wiping one's slate clean. In other words: the
covenant doesn't provide folks with an acquittal; which can be defined as a
ruling of innocence due to a lack of sufficient evidence to convict. As a
result: pardons, cleansing, and forgiveness within the covenant are merely
reprieves and leave justice for the people's sins hanging over their heads
like a sword of Damocles.

When Christianity's atonement system is fully and intelligently explained, it
is often accused of granting folks a license to steal. Well; without a license to
steal, so to speak, nobody has the slightest chance of escaping the terrible
retribution depicted by Isa 66:23-24 and Rev 20:11-15 because books are
to be opened and histories to be examined. The best way to deal that is to
make very sure there are zero negative entries affixed to one's name so that
on the books it appears that they have never been anything but 100%
innocent their entire lives.

"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins
against them". (2Cor 5:19)

Now that we know a wipe is possible; how do we obtain it? Well; I suggest
going after it with this simple prayer:

God I know I'm a sinner, and I am afraid of those books. I would like to take
advantage of your son's death, if I may.

_