Sometimes A Person Can Misunderstand What The Scriptures Are Saying

[Nehemiah6]

Then there are people like you who claims that sleep is a metaphor for watchful, wakeful awareness

No. I have never said that. What I have said is that according to Scripture the souls and spirits in Heaven and Hades are very much alive and awake. There is no such thing as Soul Sleep six feet under the earth.

But Jesus used the word "sleep" AS A METAPHOR for physical death (and so did the apostles). Read about the raising of Lazarus from the dead. When He told His apostles that Lazarus was asleep they took that as a literal statement. Then He had to correct them.

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:11-14)

All the saints in Heaven (including Lazarus) are very much alive and awake. Otherwise they could not have been called "so great a cloud of witnesses". A witness -- by definition is a lerson who is (a) alive, (b) awake, (c) alert, and (d) observant.

 

[Magenta]

No. I have never said that. What I have said is that according to Scripture the souls and spirits in Heaven
and Hades are very much alive and awake. There is no such thing as Soul Sleep six feet under the earth.

Same difference. It is still nonsensical to say sleep metaphorically connotes wakefulness.

 

[Beckie]

No. I have never said that. What I have said is that according to Scripture the souls and spirits in Heaven and Hades are very much alive and awake. There is no such thing as Soul Sleep six feet under the earth.

But Jesus used the word "sleep" AS A METAPHOR for physical death (and so did the apostles). Read about the raising of Lazarus from the dead. When He told His apostles that Lazarus was asleep they took that as a literal statement. Then He had to correct them.

These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. (John 11:11-14)

All the saints in Heaven (including Lazarus) are very much alive and awake. Otherwise they could not have been called "so great a cloud of witnesses". A witness -- by definition is a lerson who is (a) alive, (b) awake, (c) alert, and (d) observant.

Seems your post contradicts its self

 

[Nehemiah6]

Seems your post contradicts its self

How so? A metaphor is a metaphor and reality is reality. If Christians cannot see the difference then there is a real problem. Why did Christ use the term "sleep" for physical death? Because when a corpse in laid in a grave, it gives the appearance of sleeping peacefully. But that is the physical body, which will eventually turn to dust. The real issue is where have the soul and spirit gone? To which region have they gone?

 

[Mem]

Unfortunately, they go hand-in-hand. The Soul Sleep advocates are also the ones who promote the false doctrine of Annihilationism. That there is no eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, but that all souls simply "evaporate" (for want of a better term).

How so? A metaphor is a metaphor and reality is reality. If Christians cannot see the difference then there is a real problem. Why did Christ use the term "sleep" for physical death? Because when a corpse in laid in a grave, it gives the appearance of sleeping peacefully. But that is the physical body, which will eventually turn to dust. The real issue is where have the soul and spirit gone? To which region have they gone?

Ecclesiastes 12:
6Remember Him before the silver cord is snapped
and the golden bowl is crushed,
before the pitcher is shattered at the spring
and the wheel is broken at the well,
7before the dust returns to the ground from which it came
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

God is the sustainer of life, there is none unless He sustains it. So if annihilation goes hand in hand with soul sleep, you argue that God continues to sustain a person, body, soul, and spirit, or any combination of the three forever solely for torment? Which goes hand-in-hand with the Calvinist' assertion that God created people for torment.

 

[Magenta]

How so? A metaphor is a metaphor and reality is reality. If Christians cannot see the difference then there is a real problem. Why did Christ use the term "sleep" for physical death? Because when a corpse in laid in a grave, it gives the appearance of sleeping peacefully. But that is the physical body, which will eventually turn to dust. The real issue is where have the soul and spirit gone? To which region have they gone?

People who have lain in the ground for hundreds and/or thousands of years have turned to dust do not give any appearance of sleeping peacefully. There is nothing left of them, physically, yet Scripture attests to the fact that people are sleeping in Christ.

Sleep is not a metaphor for wakefulness no matter how hard you want to twist it.

So it seems it is you who really has a problem

 

[Nehemiah6]

God is the sustainer of life, there is none unless He sustains it. So if annihilation goes hand in hand with soul sleep, you argue that God continues to sustain a person, body, soul, and spirit, or any combination of the three forever solely for torment? Which goes hand-in-hand with the Calvinist' assertion that God created people for torment.

The truth of the matter -- revealed in Scripture -- is that God desires the salvation of all, and does not want anyone to face eternal torment. Hence the Gospel is to go into all the world and be preached to every creature/person. Hence also the warnings of Christ that if your hand, or your foot, or your eye causes you to sin, it is better to lose them in this life rather than go into eternal torment "where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".

So those who refuse to obey the Gospel choose eternal damnation. Also the truth of the matter is that there is a resurrection unto life and a resurrection unto damnation. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28,29) Those are the indisputable words of Christ. We are not to speculate as to why this is but to accept it as God's truth and Christ's truth. God does not desire the damnation of any, therefore He now COMMANDS all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

 

[Mem]

The truth of the matter -- revealed in Scripture -- is that God desires the salvation of all, and does not want anyone to face eternal torment.

God does not desire anyone to perish but to come to repentance (2Peter 3:9).
They are smashed to pieces from dawn to dusk; unnoticed, they perish forever.-Job 4:20

 

[Mem]

God does not desire anyone to perish but to come to repentance (2Peter 3:9).
They are smashed to pieces from dawn to dusk; unnoticed, they perish forever.-Job 4:20

disclaimer: @Oyster provided an appearance of agreement with my above thought, even though he recognizes that I interpret perish and disagrees.

 

[oyster67]

disclaimer: @Oyster provided an appearance of agreement with my above thought, even though he recognizes that I interpret perish and disagrees.

disclaimer: @Mem posted Scripture.
@oyster67 agrees with Scripture and knows that Scripture never contradicts itself.

question: Does @Mem know that Jesus loves her and does not want her to be angry at Him?

 

[Mem]

disclaimer: @Mem posted Scripture.
@oyster67 agrees with Scripture and knows that Scripture never contradicts itself.

question: Does @Mem know that Jesus loves her and does not want her to be angry at Him?

I come here solely for the patronization.

 

[oyster67]

I come here solely for the patronization.

Well God bless yo' little pea-picken' heart, my little honeydew.

 

[Mem]

Well God bless yo' little pea-picken' heart, my little honeydew.

Hmm, something smells a little off? Is it you?

 

[oyster67]

Hmm, something smells a little off? Is it you?

Chatting with you is the most wonderful sort of fun!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A lot of people use the term annihilation. I would think you actually know that but like
to pretend otherwise. It's part of your shtick. Those who use the term annihilation often
promote man's inherent immortality, which is definitely not something Scripture teaches.

Immortality is put on by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ.

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man’s sin brought death gods will for man has always been life

 

[oyster67]

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Apparently, we were all annihilated a long time ago.

 

[jaybo]

Apparently, we were all annihilated a long time ago.

In a sense that is true. We are all Adam's descendants and have inherited the sin nature. Because of that we will die, unless we accept Jesus as our personal savior who died as the required penalty for our sins. If we accept His death as the penalty for our sins, then we are granted eternal life.

 

[oyster67]

In a sense that is true. We are all Adam's descendants and have inherited the sin nature. Because of that we will die, unless we accept Jesus as our personal savior who died as the required penalty for our sins. If we accept His death as the penalty for our sins, then we are granted eternal life.

I think you missed the point.
Death is not annihilation.
We all agree that we are dead in our sins until we come to Jesus. That is the point.
We are not annihilated in our sins.
Death never did mean annihilation, and it never will.

 

[jaybo]

I think you missed the point.
Death is not annihilation.
We all agree that we are dead in our sins until we come to Jesus. That is the point.
We are not annihilated in our sins.
Death never did mean annihilation, and it never will.

I did not use the word "annihilation" in my post. Why are you distorting what I wrote?

 

[oyster67]

are you distorting what I wrote?

Quite the opposite, I'm afraid.