Salvation is for the Whole World

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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Who will be saved ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Both statements are true and the judgement is set forever and applies to every creature

does everyone in the world believe the gospel ? Or do some believe and others deny ?

Its Gods sword to divide the earth between darkness and light forever
I don't disagree with what you have written. I don't, however, understand the connection to what I have written.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Jesus called the Pharisees liars and their Father was the devil--Yet you believe Jesus committed blasphemy. That is what the Pharisees were saying. They had hearts filled with hatred for Jesus they never said a truth about him. Or did you believe them that Jesus got his power from Demons?
Jesus and his Father are one-in purpose( John 5:30) Jesus lives 24/7-365 to do his Fathers will. as do the true followers( Matt 7:21)
They saw the Father because Jesus was his image( Coll 1:15)
He also taught--The Father is greater than i.
So do you believe Jesus is YHWH? I can prove he is not.
Multiple people have been banned for denying Jesus is God.

You should probably stop going down this road if you want to stay.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy for the statements he made. The Pharisees were apostocised, they didnt even recognize the one God sent to them. Jesus called them liars for that accusation and their father was the devil. So their words are not to be believed. Just like they said Jesus got his power from Demons--They were liars, mislead.
I do not believe Jesus committed blasphemy as you claimed. That makes it
a false accusation, regardless of what whoever else believed 2,000 years ago.


Scripture attests to that fact that Jesus is God, and further says that those
who do not believe the record of Scripture about Jesus, call God a liar.



1 John 5:10
 
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Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate--He as well told the Catholic leader that Gods personal name belongs in the NT. Every spot where the OT is quoted and its in the OT. Hard to tell when one is forced to use altered versions to mislead. One should really be asking--Since God inspired his name in 7000 places, And was removed by satans will. Why do our translations support satans will over Gods will?
Greek lexicons are trinity translating.
I use what Scholars would conclude is the oldest known copy to exist.

Also, I believe anyone living today is only guessing. No One Alive today can factually with all certainty say with absolute knowledge that is undoubtedly the TRUTH.

That is why I Trust the core information we have on record from our very own Church Fathers.

In fact, the personal Disciples to the Apostle John have added many clues to what the Scriptures are saying.

I would NEVER Trust any viewpoint coming from a Lexicon.
 
Dec 30, 2020
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Scrapping So Much for Hope. Right?
What you can do is earnestly pray to God, acknowledge and repent of your sins.
Amen and as well the rest of the sentance matters it’s actually sort of a key

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at he way the New Testament is designed is that you arrive at that later point after hearing the gospel

Like this is what I’m trying to say

At he gospel was sent out to all people of rhe world

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Believers of the gospel he sent into the world and non believers of the gospel od going to determine who comes to repentance

So it is like building a wall of bricks this is what we hear in the gospel

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So when you get To Peters words it’s in agreement

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭

Repentance and also remission of sins is seen throughout the gospel

“When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord.

And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee:

go, and sin no more.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe have to come to belief of the gospel to hear the call to repentance that’s why it’s so important that he sent it out to all creatures he did this because it’s not his Will for anyone to perish but for all to hear the gospel and come to repentance and be saved

It’s why we share the gospel

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s sent to everyone but only some are willing to hear it , he sent it In hopes the Hearer will hear the call to repentance and truth and be set free

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God wants everyone to repent and be saved it’s up to us whether we hear and believe the gospel
In 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack but is long suffering towards us (those who are saved), those whose name are written in the book of life. He is also talking about future converts whose names are also written in His book of Life. He does not shut the door on humanity because He is not willing that any of them perish but for all of them to hear the gospel and come to repentance and be saved.
 
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Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate--He as well told the Catholic leader that Gods personal name belongs in the NT. Every spot where the OT is quoted and its in the OT. Hard to tell when one is forced to use altered versions to mislead. One should really be asking--Since God inspired his name in 7000 places, And was removed by satans will. Why do our translations support satans will over Gods will?
Greek lexicons are trinity translating.
Jerome translated the Hebrew and Greek to correct the versions to establish a truer translation of the Old Testament.

He did the same with the Koine Greek and even verified there was an original Gospel of Matthew written in Aramaic/Hebrew.

He knew what he was doing and translated them properly and correctly.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe your position is that God gives the faith to believe to all men.
It is the opposite, scripture is clear faith is required to be saved. People are morally capable to believe or not believe.


The "that" there is absolutely referring to the faith. By very definition of the word it would be redundant to say that the "that" is referring to grace. Grace ALREADY means unmerited favor. Not to mention the "faith" is grammatically the closest word to the "that".
It actually is not.

The word ‘gift’ is nominative which clarifies that it is salvation that is the gift, not faith.
There are three words that are in the subject or nominative case, and they all agree together: saved, this, and gift. The gift of God is not faith — it is SALVATION.


How can a DEAD person, who IS SPIRITUALLY DEAD, choose to believe the Gospel, and accept Jesus, and become "born again" ? We're DEAD!
And I don't see how on one account, someone can say "world" means EVERYONE in the world, and yet here say, that "dead" really doesn't mean DEAD.
Ephesians 2:1

What does dead mean?
Does it mean morally incapable to you, if that is what you think scripture is stating than yes people cannot have faith.

But that is not what "dead" means, "dead" means separated, not morally incapable.

People hear the Gospel and some people are persuaded it is truth based on many different personal factors and they accept the free gift offered to them by faith.

The entire call of the Gospels, become like a child, etc., is meaningless if faith is bequeathed to some and not others.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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No, yours is incorrect because we are spiritually dead in our sin and transgressions until saved. Just as a physically dead person
cannot comprehend things on the physical plane, neither can a spiritually dead person comprehend things on the
on the spiritual plane. One must first be given spiritual life for that to occur.

[Eph 2:1 KJV] 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
You steadily repeat your assertion, you are steadfastly corrected. Your sincerity and bulldog determination would be admirable, if you were correct. I know of many Muslims that are sincere to the extreme.

Maybe one day you can review the hundreds of verses throughout out Scripture that use the word “Choose,” and understand that God decided that humans would be created with the ability to choose, just as the Angels- whom we will serve.

To not be able to choose, gives man an excuse, the same one Satan used when arguing with God when He told him to check out Job.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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You steadily repeat your assertion, you are steadfastly corrected. Your sincerity and bulldog determination would be admirable, if you were correct. I know of many Muslims that are sincere to the extreme.

Maybe one day you can review the hundreds of verses throughout out Scripture that use the word “Choose,” and understand that God decided that humans would be created with the ability to choose, just as the Angels- whom we will serve.

To not be able to choose, gives man an excuse, the same one Satan used when arguing with God when He told him to check out Job.
Oh well, the answer will be the person will "chose" according to God's sovereignty, because the meaning of "sovereignty" has been re-invented as well to mean puppeteer.

So the call to "choose" is a call to do what has already been determined a person will do.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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Oh well, the answer will be the person will "chose" according to God's sovereignty, because the meaning of "sovereignty" has been re-invented as well to mean puppeteer.

So the call to "choose" is a call to do what has already been determined a person will do.
God, in His omniscience, already knows our choices. However, his ‘Knowing” in no way precludes our choice.

We are all given ample opportunities. God’s justice is a part of His love, an important aspect that would be voided if He didn’t render it perfectly.: and satan’s arguments would be valid.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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God, in His omniscience, already knows our choices. However, his ‘Knowing” in no way precludes our choice.

We are all given ample opportunities. God’s justice is a part of His love, an important aspect that would be voided if He didn’t render it perfectly.: and satan’s arguments would be valid.
Perfectly stated.
Thank you!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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God, in His omniscience, already knows our choices. However, his ‘Knowing” in no way precludes our choice.

We are all given ample opportunities. God’s justice is a part of His love, an important aspect that would be voided if He didn’t render it perfectly.: and satan’s arguments would be valid.
What many are not grasping is we are discussing a God Who knows the END from the BEGINNING.

So He just doesn't know from BEGINNING to END but from END to BEGINNING.

God has made an ATTEMPT at every junction of a person's life giving them every chance to Follow Him. He is working from the ENDS of their Lives as they are living their life from the BEGINNING working towards the END.

This is why He is JUSTIFIED come Judgement Day.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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What you can do is earnestly pray to God, acknowledge and repent of your sins.


In 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack but is long suffering towards us (those who are saved), those whose name are written in the book of life. He is also talking about future converts whose names are also written in His book of Life. He does not shut the door on humanity because He is not willing that any of them perish but for all of them to hear the gospel and come to repentance and be saved.
what does it say of you don’t alter it ?

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,

but that all should come to repentance.

‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9 ‭KJV‬‬

it says God is patient towards mankind because it’s not Gods Will for anyone to perish , it’s his Will that all come to repentance and don’t perish

Its simply Peter preaching the gospel Jesus taught him

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He said that because he doesn’t want us to perish , but it only benefits those who hear and believe so he makes the constant case that anyone who believes in him will be saved ( not perish ) but be saved from it.

People should realize God doesn’t impose his Will on mankind he informs them of the ending of thier current course and offers an alternate path and outcome and says believe me and youll
Be saved


his will Isn’t for anyone to sin and die it’s never been his Will from day one he told mankind about the present danger and warned them not to do it or they would die.

because again it’s not Gods Will for man to sin and die but even though it wasn’t Gods Will for Adam to sin and die , adams Will was to eat the fruit because the tempter told him “God lied it wasn’t going to hurt them”


God has made his Will clear in Christ he’s done it all to save us , now he says believe the gospel I’ve done to save you and you won’t perish

his Will is expressed he is waiting to see what we choose by our free Will
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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You steadily repeat your assertion, you are steadfastly corrected. Your sincerity and bulldog determination would be admirable, if you were correct. I know of many Muslims that are sincere to the extreme.

Maybe one day you can review the hundreds of verses throughout out Scripture that use the word “Choose,” and understand that God decided that humans would be created with the ability to choose, just as the Angels- whom we will serve.

To not be able to choose, gives man an excuse, the same one Satan used when arguing with God when He told him to check out Job.
I am definitely correct, and I don't know of anyone who has yet proven me wrong.
If I'm not correct, then then there's no such thing as a Saviour because He as the Saviour in all possible ways with nothing being left outside of His salvation, is the basis of everything I believe and post - all of my posts in some form or another, point to Christ.
You, however, don't seem not to want it to be that way but instead believe that a person must also provide something in addition to that to become saved.
For some reason you appear unable to grasp or are unwilling to grasp the verses I've posted that tells us that the natural man cannot comprehend things spiritual though the verse is perfectly clear about it. I am not sure why that would be. Please explain what you've found in it that makes you doubt its veracity so that I can learn too. Here it is again:

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


I don't get your comment about Muslims and what does sincerity have to do with anything?

Of course there are many verses that say choose, but how can anyone who is spiritually dead and has been blinded choose though a choice is presented to them - they can only choose based upon what they know, and they can't know the things of the Spirit because they are dead to the things of the Spirit. One first has to be given the Spirit to know the things of the Spirit - and that only comes
with spiritual rebirth.

The below verses explain perfectly the state of the unsaved. There are none who of themselves that can change that state.

[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Rom 3:10-18 KJV]
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:
14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV]
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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What many are not grasping is we are discussing a God Who knows the END from the BEGINNING.

So He just doesn't know from BEGINNING to END but from END to BEGINNING.

God has made an ATTEMPT at every junction of a person's life giving them every chance to Follow Him. He is working from the ENDS of their Lives as they are living their life from the BEGINNING working towards the END.

This is why He is JUSTIFIED come Judgement Day.
amen it’s why he taught the gospel he’s informing them of the end of their current course because he knows

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

He’s telling them the end before it happens so they can believe and change the end that’s coming but when we won’t hear him and believe what he’s saying we’re remaining on the dark
 
Jun 20, 2022
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amen it’s why he taught the gospel he’s informing them of the end of their current course because he knows

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

He’s telling them the end before it happens so they can believe and change the end that’s coming but when we won’t hear him and believe what he’s saying we’re remaining on the dark
Amen!
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
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amen it’s why he taught the gospel he’s informing them of the end of their current course because he knows

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

He’s telling them the end before it happens so they can believe and change the end that’s coming but when we won’t hear him and believe what he’s saying we’re remaining on the dark
It seems to me, that the term repent, is a term that indicates a change in attitude which leads to a change in behavior, as a result of believing something strongly enough to actually do something about it.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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It seems to me, that the term repent, is a term that indicates a change in attitude which leads to a change in behavior, as a result of believing something strongly enough to actually do something about it.
yes a change of mind how we think really th ata what hearing and believing the things jesus said does for us ot brings us to repentance ( a changed mind )



It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Becoming a disciple of Jesus changes how we think it’s the understanding we need

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See mankind fell because they believed the wrong knowledge and it led them astray into sin

but they are saved when they repent and believe the right knowledge that leads them home to righteousness and eternal life

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Faith saves us because what we believe changes us inside first and then we become different outwardly

repentwncenis a life long journey but a decision we make that we aren’t going to sit in chains anymore as slaves to sin is part of it we think wrong like theres no escape we’re just poor sinners without even the right to choose life or death good or evil

but we’ve been given the choice of repentance righteousness and eternal life
 
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It seems to me, that the term repent, is a term that indicates a change in attitude which leads to a change in behavior, as a result of believing something strongly enough to actually do something about it.
Well said!