3 Statements...Just True or False

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cv5

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You do realize the Bible says you are a sheep. Try living that out without human reasoning.
Warrior sheep. Lambo. When required. At least some have that calling.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Eve was deceived, Adam knew what he was doing.
True. Even so it is hard to fathom his motivation. Did Adam suddenly become stupid? He had absolutely every privilege that God could give a man, plus an entire orchard of delectable fruit trees, plus a beautiful wife given to him personally by God (and little or no work in keeping the Garden shipshape). Yet he behaved like an idiot.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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True. Even so it is hard to fathom his motivation. Did Adam suddenly become stupid? He had absolutely every privilege that God could give a man, plus an entire orchard of delectable fruit trees, plus a beautiful wife given to him personally by God (and little or no work in keeping the Garden shipshape). Yet he behaved like an idiot.
His sin was a type of Jesus Christ. Adam sinned to be with his bride. Christ became sin to be with his bride. What the first Adam could not do, the last Adam accomplished. And actually, Adam was not acting like an idiot. I believe he did so out of his love for his bride.
 

cv5

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His sin was a type of Jesus Christ. Adam sinned to be with his bride. Christ became sin to be with his bride. What the first Adam could not do, the last Adam accomplished. And actually, Adam was not acting like an idiot. I believe he did so out of his love for his bride.
Well spoken.....(y)
 

Cameron143

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His sin was a type of Jesus Christ. Adam sinned to be with his bride. Christ became sin to be with his bride. What the first Adam could not do, the last Adam accomplished. And actually, Adam was not acting like an idiot. I believe he did so out of his love for his bride.
There is nothing noble about sin. And if Adam thought so, why did he hide? Choosing a relationship with another before a relationship with God doesn't model Jesus.
Ultimately, trying to discover Adam's reasoning is futile. The Bible doesn't say.
 

HeIsHere

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His sin was a type of Jesus Christ. Adam sinned to be with his bride. Christ became sin to be with his bride. What the first Adam could not do, the last Adam accomplished. And actually, Adam was not acting like an idiot. I believe he did so out of his love for his bride.
Very insightful.
 

John146

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There is nothing noble about sin. And if Adam thought so, why did he hide? Choosing a relationship with another before a relationship with God doesn't model Jesus.
Ultimately, trying to discover Adam's reasoning is futile. The Bible doesn't say.
Jesus forfeited a lot to be with his bride.
 

maxwel

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Apr 18, 2013
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Thank you for going through the trouble and offering this very convincing line of reasoning which agrees with Posth and all the other hopeless romantics like John146, I think, and maybe Shakespeare. But only if we assume the premise as we can only speculate upon that which we aren't told, and it is Bruce' Leiter position to refrain from speculation so maybe he has it the most right? Maybe. Maybe not, but I can't seem to help it. As you pointed out being a type of Christ refers somehow to at least one aspect of Christ and I believe this is that his actions affect the rest of mankind. What I do not know, because we are not told it, is whether he possessed any fruit of the Spirit that is inherent in Jesus, such as love. Yes, Adam may have possessed a lesser? degree of it and misplaced it in Eve, hence the commandment, "if you love mother or father, etc. more than Me..." or he may have inspired the commandment, "value others more than yourselves."
Yes, we should not forget that Adam was innocent before proven guilty, but neither forget that Jesus cannot be proven guilty of anything.
If we are going to really examine the text honestly, and take the text in light of other passages of scripture... we get what we get.


Hopeless Romantics?

Adam loved Eve... that's in the Bible.
God Loves us... that's in the Bible.
Christ loved us enough to die for us... that's in the Bible.
Lots of people love lots of people... that's in the Bible.
People in love say and do "romantic" things... that's in the Bible.
Both romance and romantic ideas are in the Bible.


Regarding Speculation:

1.) Logical Inference:
To logically infer or deduce the implications of a passage, with full consideration of the rest of scripture, is not equal to speculation.

(This is how we arrive at most doctrine, such as the trinity.)

2.) Explanatory Power:
When multiple explanations are available for an outcome, to choose the one with the greatest explanatory power is not equal to pure speculation.

(This is also a part of how we arrive at most doctrine, because it's foundational to hermeneutics. It's also how we do science.)

3.) Romantic View:
To discard a contrary view, by merely labeling it with a dismissive term, such as "romantic", isn't a logical rebuttal.

a.) Casting a view in a bad light through disparaging language doesn't constitute a rebuttal.
b.) Furthermore, the state of being "romantic" should not, in any way, even be considered as a negative thing. Romance is deeply ingrained in scripture, from beginning to end... it is part of human life, and part of scripture.
c.) If by "romantic" you did not mean "romantic love", but merely "fanciful" - then you would, by necessity of your own claim, be obligated to prove the opposing view is fanciful. We can't just dismiss a a view by disparaging it with unkind terms. Disparagement is not a rebuttal.
d.) I don't believe you meant any unkindness in any this... but we are just constantly surrounded by this tactic of dismissive language. It's all around us, even in scholarly works at times, so we often employ it without realizing it. I'm sure I do it too. And if I have, then I apologize.



Mem,
I think I've said everything on this topic that I have time for.
It's been fun, and you raised a lot of interesting points... it's always good to talk about scripture.
I'm going to exit the thread, but you are always welcome to message me in pm.
God Bless.


.
 

cv5

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There is nothing noble about sin. And if Adam thought so, why did he hide? Choosing a relationship with another before a relationship with God doesn't model Jesus.
Ultimately, trying to discover Adam's reasoning is futile. The Bible doesn't say.
Its not the sin that is noble. Its the sacrificial love.
 

cv5

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He didn't sin to do so.
He suffered for the sins of all the other fallen Adam's to do it.
Really the various parallels and types are quite stark and compelling if you ask me.
 

Cameron143

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Its not the sin that is noble. Its the sacrificial love.
Ultimately, it was selfish love, not selfless love. He wasn't loving anyone who came after him. Jesus loved the whole world.
 

cv5

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What the first Adam could not do, the last Adam accomplished.
Totally agree man. That being dying of his own free will and choice (a vain attempt by the first Adam) to save/redeem his wife.
 

cv5

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Ultimately, it was selfish love, not selfless love. He wasn't loving anyone who came after him. Jesus loved the whole world.
Pity, mercy and love for another are not selfish. I am sure Adam felt all of that and more. Not to mention the anguish of knowing that he would likewise suffer loss and likely be punished if he sinned intentionally.

Like I said.....the parallels are stark and compelling.
 

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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Jesus forfeited a lot to be with his bride.
"His sin was a type of Jesus Christ."

Hi all that pat on the back set aside. Maybe for those that don't understand 2 questions if I may kindly ask. What did Jesus forfeit to be with His bride and that sin that Adam and Eve did "was a type of Jesus Christ"? Explain that one?
 

Cameron143

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Adam's sin was a rebellious act. If he wanted to love Eve he should have fallen on his face before God and pleaded for mercy, not join her rebellion.
 

cv5

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I do not hear much about the initial and possibly causative factor......Satan's interloping. This is very much key to the whole situation.

If you were to find out that your kid was approached by an older neighborhood bad boy selling weed, and was tricked/induced/tempted to try it, who would you blame? Even though you warned about it/him earlier?
 

cv5

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Adam's sin was a rebellious act. If he wanted to love Eve he should have fallen on his face before God and pleaded for mercy, not join her rebellion.
Satan rebelled. Eve was deceived/tempted.
 

cv5

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Adam's sin was a rebellious act. If he wanted to love Eve he should have fallen on his face before God and pleaded for mercy, not join her rebellion.
Oh but Adam DID obtain mercy. Immediately.
God issued His instantaneous judgement.......redemption/forgiveness for Adam,
However the instigator interloper rebellious serpent was CONDEMNED immediately.

Speaks volumes as to who the guilty party really was in all of this.

Gen 3:14
So the LORD God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”