Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

F2F · Mar 7, 2023

It's a head slapping moment really!

I mean, in one sentence you have robbed God of a Son and robbed a Son of his sufferings - insane how "bent" your thinking is. Let's explore your reasoning for a moment.

We are told Jesus was in literal agony in the Garden of Gethsemane.

What does that mean?

Maybe for you it was a show? like a play where everything is make believe?

And why agony? its the word ‘Agonia’ = ‘A contest’ (only occurrence). It relates to a ‘fight’...you see in your ignorance you are unaware there was a conflict of the flesh and spirit in the Master leading up to that horrific crucifixtion – his will versus his Father’s.

I doubt you can even speak to these things - maybe your doctrine only accepts certain Scriptures and when a text doesn't fit into your paradigm you discard it?

It's true the Bible tells us Jesus delighted to do his Father’s will as per Psalm 40:8. So did Paul, but in the attempt it started a war in
his mind! Read Romans 7:22-23!

Here is the verse in case you didn't recognize it:

Luke 22:44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

Luke the physician records this literal occurrence by using the word ‘Thrombos’ = ‘a clot’ (only occurrence). ‘as it
were...’ – it wasn’t literal.

Have you ever ‘Poured out your soul (blood) unto death?’ Christ did! Isa 53:12?

You say the Lord was never worried? concerned? doubtful?

Why would Christ ask his Father to find another way? Why ask to have the cup of suffering removed, if that was possible? Of course, it wasn't! And he drank it.

So far every time you have posted you have proven to me you don't know the Lord Jesus Christ.

F2F

Scribe · Mar 7, 2023

JohnDB said:

The Cloud of Glory would suggest that these were THE Moses and Elijah and not just some ordinary people with the same name.

Since the author did not explain to the readers how Peter knew, then it would fall upon the reader to assume the most natural reasoning. One that the author would expect from most readers and did not feel it would be necessary to explain since the readers would not need such explanation.

This leads me to the most natural conclusion that Jesus used their names in their conversation overheard by the three. The transfiguration of Christ and the Cloud that over shadowed them all was sufficient to leave no doubt in the minds of these disciples that they were seeing a vision of THE Moses and THE Elijah and not just some local folks with the same names.

posthuman · Mar 8, 2023

F2F said:

Where in Matthew 17, Mark 9 or Luke 9 does the text say they were encouraging the Son of God?

posthuman · Mar 8, 2023

Scribe said:

... name tags?

posthuman · Mar 8, 2023

TMS said:

As much as we can find many things two people can symbolize, it doesn't tell us why these two specific people are there.

These analogies the vision portrays aren't false or anything, but for example it may as well have been Abel and Enoch if the only purpose was for one person who had died a natural death in the flesh and one who had not. Or it didn't even need to be be people, if the whole reason they appeared was to symbolize water and blood why not a bucket and a fish sandwich? Or just a flagon of wine hovering around in the air?

Or a smoking firepot and a burning torch, hint hint!

Moses and Elijah had both been inside the Shekinah. They had seen who dwells in it.
This is the only explanation i know of that fits all the details - and does not mean whatever symbolism we might see is wrong, just that symbolism isn't explanatory.

posthuman · Mar 8, 2023

F2F said:

"whatever is not of faith is sin"

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 8, 2023

On the Ark of the covenant there are two cherubim.They represent the Two Witnesses,the water and the blood.At the death of Jesus on the cross are two thieves.
It's mentioned in scripture that Jesus's cross is in the middle.
Which thieve says this?
"Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."

The one on the left.He repents.
At the cross there's the spirit(Jesus,gives up the ghost) the repentant thieve (water) and the thieve on the right(blood)
God's timing is perfect and the way he does things are beyond our understanding.But his word is filled with treasures waiting for us to find.
God's amazing.

cv5 · Mar 8, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Believe it or not....it may actually be FOUR persons, two on either side. I am rather convinced (for the time being) that there are in fact two on one side and two on another side.

It may not be a conclusive argument.......but somewhat compelling nevertheless.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 8, 2023

cv5 said:

Why do you think there's two on each side?

cv5 · Mar 8, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Oh....just look into it bro. Do some homework and you will find info. The exegesis of the redoubtable Bullinger is the reference. This man's opinion is to be taken seriously. Very seriously. I think he is correct BTW.

Appendixes to The Companion Bible (levendwater.org)

Pilgrimshope · Mar 8, 2023

posthuman said:

amen a lot of folks don’t see this part

“And Deuteronomy 18:15-19 does not say Moses will return, not at all. It says "someone like Moses" and it is the go-to passage for the foretelling of Christ, the Messiah”

“I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, ( a prophet like Moses ) and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:

We don’t have to wonder about the interpretation of that Peter does it for us when he received the Holy Ghost

“and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. ( Christs word)

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20, 22-

moses was born at a time the pharoah was killing Israel’s sons , jesus birth brought Herod slaughtering the children of Israel

to escape death Moses was taken into an Egyptian family , Jesus parents took him to Egypt to escape the slaughter. Moses was called tomlewd israel out of bondage in Egypt , jesus came to lead the world out of bondage to sin , Moses spent fourty days and nights fasting , jesus spent fourty days and nights fasting ect

moses life is a pattern for jesus who is “ the prophet from among Israel’s bertheren like Moses who he would raise up to speak his true words of requirement for mankind

Finally jesus said it too

“whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

There was also one like Elijah raised up just before Jesus appeared fulfilling Malachi 4

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 8, 2023

This is just more confirmation who the Two Witnesses are.It's pretty much common knowledge that the Two cherubim on top of the Ark of the covenant represent his Two Witnesses.
His Two Witnesses are not absent at his death on the cross.They are present just like they were when the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat in the OT.
They are at the transfiguration.
They are not absent even in the heavens.Spirit(Sun)water(moon)blood.(earth)
100% they will be there right down to the atom.

SilverFox7 · Mar 8, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

This is just more confirmation who the Two Witnesses are.It's pretty much common knowledge that the Two cherubim on top of the Ark of the covenant represent his Two Witnesses.
His Two Witnesses are not absent at his death on the cross.They are present just like they were when the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat in the OT.
They are at the transfiguration.
They are not absent even in the heavens.Spirit(Sun)water(moon)blood.(earth)
100% they will be there right down to the atom.

Intriguing observations.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 8, 2023

SilverFox7 said:

God revealed these things to me after I looked out my window to find him.I knew to look for the spirit,water,and the blood.
I saw him in the wind,the rain and the thunder/lightning.Then I looked up into the heavens to find him.And he was in the moon,sun and the earth.
Then he showed me the signs on my body, and revealed to me hand signs.
Since that day he's slowly revealed more in scripture of the spirit,water,and the blood.
I just want to share these things with people.Regardless if they believe or not.

Scribe · Mar 8, 2023

Someone may have already posted this but I see it as the Law and the Prophets which God used to speak to the fathers in times past but in these last days has spoken to us by His Son. Heb 1:1.

When Peter asked to build three tabernacles the Voice from heaven said "This is my Son, HEAR HIM" and thus set Peter straight as to the supremacy of Christ over Moses and Elijah, the Law and the Prophets. Jesus represented the express image of the person of God and the Glory of God not Moses, not the Law, and not the prophets who's message was about Jesus.

Jesus superseded them. This is what this vision is all about. It is typology of the theology that is preached throughout the New Testament.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 8, 2023

Scribe said:

When Peter asked to build three tabernacles the Voice from heaven said "This is my Son, HEAR HIM" and thus set Peter straight as to the supremacy of Christ over Moses and Elijah, the Law and the Prophets. Jesus represented the express image of the person of God and the Glory of God not Moses, not the Law, and not the prophets who's message was about Jesus.

Agreed!

Pilgrimshope · Mar 9, 2023

Scribe said:

Amen a good post .The law and prophets witness of Christ Elijah represents the prophets witness mosesthe laws witness it's really a fulfillment of prophecy

Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my Lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
Zechariah 4:11‭, ‬13‭-‬14 KJV

Jesus was manifest as the lord of all and Moses and Elijah were at his side representing the law and prophets who witness Christ from beginning to end

Pilgrimshope · Mar 9, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Two witnesses?
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:10‭-‬11 KJ

Pilgrimshope · Mar 9, 2023

It just occurred to me when Abraham saw the lord at mamre he had two men with him

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 9, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

There's quite a few moments the water and the blood appears unnoticed in scripture making a way.I remember reading about Joseph and there was seemly random events that took place and that was one of the first moments I realized that the water and the blood went before and made away for that person.I forgot who it was.

Think about the Levites at Mount Sinai.When Moses comes down and breaks the tablets in anger and saids who is for God?come to me.
It's the Levites who rallied to Moses.They repented and were told to go around the camp and kill all their brothers,their friends,and neighbors.

Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

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