Salvation is for the Whole World

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NOV25

NOV25

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#561
Nov 23, 2019
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#561
ThereRoseaLamb said:
But that's what Calvin believed.
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Nope, Calvin stated man is totally depraved and unable.
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Consider Wesley and his sinless perfectionism heresy, where do you suppose that came from?

It’s the honest conclusion of an “Arminian”. If man is able to repent and believe as God commands then man must be able to adhere to all the commands including being sinless.

Heresy breeds heresy, one of the reasons we fight against the false free will gospel.

Note: Wesley is a founder of the Methodist church 😬
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#563
Jul 8, 2018
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#563
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Actually I assumed you were not Calvinist. I also believe in predestination and I believe that those that become saved are the elect. I just don't believe that God chooses who is elect. I believe He knows who will come, but I do not believe He created some for destruction. The issue is if you are involved in evangelism and outreach you need to know what the Word says. So I am not speaking specifically of you, I was talking about the die hards of Calvinism.
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Does not elect mean chosen?
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#564
Jul 8, 2018
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#564
Sipsey said:
So, how were those that lived prior to the advent of Jesus saved?
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In the same manner that we are saved, by God's sovereign grace in quickening us to the new spiritual life by putting the Holy Spirit within us (Isaiah 63:11).
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#565
May 24, 2014
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#565
ForestGreenCook said:
Are you contending that the natural man, that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned, will call upon the name of a spiritual Lord?
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Yes, and he must if he is ever to gain the wisdom and understanding that only the Holy Spirit can give.
Jesus died so that whosever would call upon His name might be saved. That is the Gospel. That is elementary foundational Christian doctrine.

What you preach is a very strange doctrine. From whence it came, the Devil knows.

He knocks on the door of every man's heart, even yours. Please come to the Light today.

John 3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Revelation 3
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
 
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Sipsey

Well-known member
#566
Sep 27, 2018
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#566
oyster67 said:
Yes, and he must if he is ever to gain the wisdom and understanding that only the Holy Spirit can give.
Jesus died so that whosever would call upon His name might be saved. That is the Gospel. That is elementary foundational Christian doctrine.

What you preach is a very strange doctrine. From whence it came, the Devil knows.

He knocks on the door of every man's heart, even yours. Please come to the Light today.

John 3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Revelation 3
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
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It seems their Gospel is one where neither Angels or man have a choice. God seems to pick straws.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#568
Jan 17, 2023
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#568
NOV25 said:
Nope, Calvin stated man is totally depraved and unable.
———
Consider Wesley and his sinless perfectionism heresy, where do you suppose that came from?

It’s the honest conclusion of an “Arminian”. If man is able to repent and believe as God commands then man must be able to adhere to all the commands including being sinless.
Click to expand...

Nope, don't believe in sinless perfection this side of heaven. Christ was the only person to be perfectly sinless.

So again, I ask the question, why did God say repent if man is unable to do so?
 
oyster67

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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#570
Sipsey said:
It seems their Gospel is one where neither Angels or man have a choice. God seems to pick straws.
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Yes, and this blasphemy relegates Jesus' Atonement to utter meaninglessness.
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
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Nov 23, 2019
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#571
As the Methodist church is largely Arminian, the Catholic Church is largely semi-Pelagian (though officially denounced it). Point is, it seems a common denominator for apostate churches to accept some form of Pelagianism.
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Nope, don't believe in sinless perfection this side of heaven. Christ was the only person to be perfectly sinless.

So again, I ask the question, why did God say repent if man is unable to do so?
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Why command if man isn’t able to comply? For His glory. As I said in the beginning, all creation is to glorify God.

A truly repentant person gives all glory to God who grants it. Acts 11, Timothy 2, 2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow causes repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

The world, the natural man, dead in his sin with the law written on his heart is sorrowful unto death (hell). Godly sorrow, sorrow caused by grace: the divine influence upon the heart, causes repentance to salvation.
————

My turn.

By your logic man is able to repent and believe because God commanded it. Why then don’t you believe that man is able to be sinless as commanded? Sinless perfectionism is an honest conclusion for an honest Arminian. 🤷‍♂️
 
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Sipsey

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Sep 27, 2018
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#572
ForestGreenCook said:
In the same manner that we are saved, by God's sovereign grace in quickening us to the new spiritual life by putting the Holy Spirit within us (Isaiah 63:11).
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Yet, we are told, “No man cometh to the Father, except by me.”
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#573
oyster67 said:
Jesus died so that whosever would call upon His name might be saved.
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Only those who have been quickened to the new spiritual life,(Eph 2:1), are able to call upon a spiritual Jesus/God
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#575
oyster67 said:
John 3
14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sen
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God sent snakes from the sky upon disobedient Israel, who already had the promise of an eternal inheritance, for their punishment.

If they looked upon the serpent, they would be healed, in the same manner that we are healed from our sinful nature because of the finished work of Christ on the cross.

There is a world that God loves, which are those that are in the world, but not of the world, and there is a world that Jesus said that he would not pray for.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#576
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Yes, the Jews are chosen, we are grafted into the chosen, the elect.
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It sure would help, if you would give scripture to back up your statements.

The Jewish nation are not all elect, (Rom 9:6) just some of them. God's elect are made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5-9).
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#577
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Nope, don't believe in sinless perfection this side of heaven. Christ was the only person to be perfectly sinless.

So again, I ask the question, why did God say repent if man is unable to do so?
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God tells his children to repent. When one of his children commits a sin, they separate themselves from God's fellowship, temporary, until they repent. The natural man (1 Cor 2:14) will not, and even cannot, repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws, that he cannot discern, and thinks them to be foolishness.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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#579
oyster67 said:
Yes, and this blasphemy relegates Jesus' Atonement to utter meaninglessness.
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You are the one that is making Jesus's atonement meaninglessness, by saying that it was just an offering to mankind to accept, when, actually, Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance.
 
NOV25

NOV25

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Nov 23, 2019
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#580
ForestGreenCook said:
You are the one that is making Jesus's atonement meaninglessness, by saying that it was just an offering to mankind to accept, when, actually, Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God, for God's acceptance, and not to mankind, for mankind's acceptance.
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Most of these folks don’t know what they’re saying, don’t even understand their own doctrine. They deny being Arminian then affirm the 5 points of Arminianism 🤣🤣🤦‍♂️

Look people, there is no new theology or doctrine, it’s all been discussed. You’re either some form of Calvinist or some form of Arminian, it’s that simple. Do your homework.
 
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