Salvation is for the Whole World

[ForestGreenCook]

I know you really, really, really like to post this verse.

Can we agree that this verse needs to be understood first within the context of the audience, to whom it was written, that is the church at Corinth?

All of the inspired scriptures are written to God's born again children, instructing them as to how he wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth. So, yes, this was written to the church, informing them of the contrast of the spiritual man and the natural man.

Paul even says is chapter 3:1 that he could not speak unto them as spiritual, but as carnal, even as unto "babes in Christ". They had been born again, but had not matured enough to come unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God.

 

[Ted01]

I get so lost on this Calvinistic notion that a person must be born-again by God in order to acquire the faith necessary to believe enough so that they can become born-again, again?

My understanding of Scripture is that God, being "outside of Time", knew from the beginning which people would choose to accept His gift of Faith and by that Faith, accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
So, both things occur... God predestines us (who believe) unto Salvation, and we choose by Faith... with some degree of help by God Himself.

I think, that to the human mind, this incomprehensible, yet clearly taught in the Scripture. It is a Mystery of God.
But the notion that we are born-again in order to be born-again, again, seems absurd to me? IDK.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If I'm drowning at sea, do I need God to rescue me and get me aboard the lifeboat before I realize I need to reach out for the flotation device? Of course not; all I need to know is I'm drowning and need rescued.

The spiritually dead person cannot reach out for a spiritual flotation device.

 

[Sipsey]

The natural person, who has not been reborn spiritually, only has faith in mankind, (1 Cor 2:14), and his accomplishments. Spiritual faith only comes to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, as he indwells us in the new birth. (Gal 5:22 & Eph 12:1).

So, all those declarations to have faith, are directed at God?

The spiritually dead person cannot reach out for a spiritual flotation device.

That leads to the question; Why do you think God throws a spiritual flotation to some, but allows others to drown their way to Hell?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Well, if you repeatedly misunderstand straightforward, to the point, easy-to-understand statements like that...

But no. I will not finish that sentence. I accept your apology.



It does leave me wondering what you have understood of all we have said to each other .

But I also understand that speaking to multiple people with varying views all at the same time can be confusing.

I could not help, but to notice that you were very kind, and thoughtful in your reply to Rogerg.

 

[Ted01]

Matt. 14:28-31 (ESV)
8 And Peter answered him, “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.” 29 He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind,[a] he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.” 31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”

Jesus is the flotation device.

 

[Magenta]

The spiritually dead person cannot reach out for a spiritual flotation device.

Jesus is the flotation device.

spiritual flotation device

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Were the Israelites oblivious to their condition? They kept returning to and calling upon God specifically because they were
aware of their plight and need of Him even as they kept turning away, being disobedient, and not being born again of the Spirit.

I believe that the scriptures will uphold that they were already born again children of God, but were disobedient children of God, who had not lost their promise of an eternal inheritance. All (spiritual) Israel will be saved (Rom 11:46).

 

[ResidentAlien]

The spiritually dead person cannot reach out for a spiritual flotation device.

Sorry, but they can; if God reveals to them they need it. They don't have to be born again to realize they need a savior. If they're already born again why would they need to know they need a savior? This is my last reply to you because you don't have the capacity to understand even trivial matters. Get some common sense.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So, all those declarations to have faith, are directed at God?

That leads to the question; Why do you think God throws a spiritual flotation to some, but allows others to drown their way to Hell?

I have spiritual faith in God, and what his inspired words teach. I do not question God's motives. His ways are higher than my ways.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Comical, but it is you that is spreading a false doctrine. Rom 1 is all about, those that are called of God, who have turned away from God, and hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them for God hath shewed it unto them, because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God.


These are not the natural man that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness, but these are backsliding children of God. The natural man thinks creation evolved, and that God had nothing to do with it.

You really do live in your own Itty bitty world.

Romans Chapter One from Verses 18 on are about every human being that never accepted God. THEY WERE NEVER BELIEVERS TO BEGIN WITH!!

They are [your precious] natural man full of sin and as carnal as a snake.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Matt. 14:28-31 (ESV)
8 And Peter answered him, “Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water.” 29 He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind,[a] he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.” 31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?”

Jesus is the flotation device.

And Peter was a spiritual child of God.

 

[Magenta]

I believe that the scriptures will uphold that they were already born again children of God, but were disobedient children
of God, who had not lost their promise of an eternal inheritance. All (spiritual) Israel will be saved (Rom 11:46).

I believe you are wrong because Scriptures uphold the fact that faith is a requirement for salvation,
and your equation has people being saved when they neither believe in God nor have any faith in
His plan of salvation for those who believe on the shed righteous blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 11:6

 

[Ted01]

And Peter was a spiritual child of God.

That's a non sequitur, because Jesus encourages ALL to cry out to God.

Still, Jesus said to Peter "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
By your ascribing of Faith to believer's... shouldn't Jesus have said "O you of little Faith, why didn't the Father give you more Faith?"

 

[Sipsey]

I have spiritual faith in God, and what his inspired words teach. I do not question God's motives. His ways are higher than my ways.

How can you know you are saved? Because according to your view, you did nothing. How do you know He chose you?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You really do live in your own Itty bitty world.

Romans Chapter One from Verses 18 on are about every human being that never accepted God. THEY WERE NEVER BELIEVERS TO BEGIN WITH!!

They are [your precious] natural man full of sin and as carnal as a snake.

Then you must be among the majority of the lost sheep of Israel, who God has blinded to see the truths of the gospel, until you repent of your false doctrine of eternal salvation by works. Paul prayed for those, like yourself, in Rom 10:1-3.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That's a non sequitur, because Jesus encourages ALL to cry out to God.

Still, Jesus said to Peter "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
By your ascribing of Faith to believer's... shouldn't Jesus have said "O you of little Faith, why didn't the Father give you more Faith?"

We all need more faith, even yourself.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

How can you know you are saved? Because according to your view, you did nothing. How do you know He chose you?

Can you not see your dependence on your works to save you eternally, simply by your questing me of doing nothing to be saved eternally?

 

[Ted01]

We all need more faith, even yourself.

LOL, yes indeed!! There's a point that we both can agree on! Praise God!!

Still, I am confused that staunch Calvinists, like yourself(?), contend that our Salvation and everything accompanying it, is of God and we can contribute nothing?

So how can one, according to your beliefs, contribute to things like increasing Faith, being obedient (since you've several times said that there are/were believers living in disobedience), and Spiritual growth? You say that God does it ALL, right... so what can mankind do, if anything? I would think that we can't even be submissive to God by Calvinist doctrine?

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

In this dogma, faith has to be a gift so that the system stays in tact, that is why they argue so strongly, it is not about scripture it is about preserving the system.

So the conversation will always go round and round and the irony is it may take a work of the God, a gift of revelation, to remove the self-inflicted blinders.

Yeah, I don't know, I have never seen people flat out deny what the Word says. I did a this vs that. Works vs faith. They still say faith is a work. So I don't know why use the Bible if you don't believe what you're reading? I don't get it. Then they call you a heretic for believing the Word. smh